And no small number of supposed leftists found in all this cause for celebration.
and also
Those who approve or condone Hamas’s atrocities constitute a small minority of the left.
Mr. Levitz should take a deep breath and figure out what exactly he’s trying to say, and to whom.
That’s a great catch - a contradiction straight out of an Ace Attorney game lol.
This author is a moron for ignoring the crazy amount of nuances involved in the particular situation.
Where is the nuance in babies being decapitated.
The fact that it’s only been reported by one extremist reporter, and hasn’t been confirmed or supported by anyone, including the soldiers involved, which is the biggest group to benefit by increased support of what they’re doing. If more people came out and said it, then I’d understand, but this sounds like the ravings of a loon.
Next to the nuance in burning babies to death?
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/7/31/palestinian-baby-burned-to-death-in-settler-attack
Or maybe it was left next to the toddler shot to death?
Oh wait, maybe it was left with the decades of Israel murdering children of all ages?
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/28/west-bank-spike-israeli-killings-palestinian-children
“Israeli forces are gunning down Palestinian children living under occupation with increasing frequency,” said Bill Van Esveld, associate children’s rights director at Human Rights Watch.
Reading the one about the toddler, he was apparently in a car caught in a gun battle where freedom fighters were attacking the IDF. The Israelis rushed him to a hospital with a helicopter.
The first is a terrorist attack by jewish extremists, condemned by Israel.
I don’t know why you need to phrase it like its the Israeli state happily murdering children? Or compare it to attacking a village and going house to house to kill the babies
attacking a village and going house to house to kill the babies
Source? Because the white house even retracted Biden’s comment, which tells us a lot about the veracity of those rumours.
Do you believe they spared the children?
There’s plenty of articles
Edit: having trouble inserting a link - https://www.timesofisrael.com/corpses-and-kids-bikes-burned-homes-and-death-in-kibbutz-where-hamas-butchered-100/
When the Palestinian gunmen stormed the kibbutz, they set fire to several homes in what had been a bustling community “to force their occupants to come out,” said Omar Barak, a 24-year-old Israeli army officer. […] “We have found many bodies inside the homes,” he said. […] “I had never seen anything worse. I broke down when I saw the bodies of two children assassinated,” he said.
Nobody’s denying children died in the attack. The claim under dispute is that the terrorists collected 40 babies for a mass execution by beheading.
The wildest claim I read was one IDF commander claiming 40 dead babies, some of them beheaded. I don’t know where you read they rounded them up or that they were all beheaded?
Anyway from the other side I haven’t read anywhere that the freedom fighters had spared the babies. If they did I’d think it would be impossible to keep covered up, so unless that happens I assume they killed the babies as well
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Totally unverified at the moment. Could be true, could be hyperbole.
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What’s happening now is just as morally depraved as what happened in 2014. That’s the nuance.
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Even in your article it just cites what one Israeli settler guy claimed happened. That is not verified. That is not what verified means dude.
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K well I don’t have Twitter so
No it’s not verified at this time according to this:
https://theintercept.com/2023/10/11/israel-hamas-disinformation/
The Israel Defense Forces could not confirm a horrific claim that Hamas beheaded babies during a weekend assault, a spokesperson for the military told The Intercept on Tuesday. The claim went viral, becoming a headline-grabbing aspect of a massacre that left more than 1,000 Israelis dead.
And Biden was just echoing “news” reports
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/rcna119865
Two senior administration officials said Biden was referring to reports from Israel about beheaded children and cited several media reports of beheadings.
NBC News has not confirmed those reports.
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Lol. You just said the bombing of children is not as morally depraved as the beheading of children. Get the fuck out of here, you psychopath.
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As horrific as that sounds, it doesn’t look like there’s a ton of evidence for it just looking at the Lemmy front page, but feel free to provide a source.
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News sources say there is more than 1000 dead. These are people who have nothing to do with politics.
It’s something different to be pro Palestine and be happy with the outcome of this attack. The second one is simply morally wrong. It’s no different for me than to say 9/11 was fine.
1000 or more dead is independently verifiable, I’m not arguing that. It’s the beheadings of children that I’m questioning. It all seems to come from one source and instead of being independently verified, it’s being questioned by other media sources. So excuse me for not wanting to spread potential misinformation.
There must be a name for it in behavioral science, when some are faced with horrible news and automatically go into denial. I suppose that’s where conspiracy theories originate too. They have to make up a story to make themselves feel better.
All going to say, guy, that I seen and heard enough on CNN to know the story is true.
You realise the White House has actually taken the step of retracting Biden’s comments? That should give you an idea of how much stock they’re putting in those rumours
They retracted that he had seen photos, not that the story is not true.
And why exactly do you think they would go to the trouble of a retraction, when they could have spent 5 seconds showing him the photos if they existed?
That’s a good question. I suppose that if the President had seen these photos then they would become part of the Presidential papers and could be gotten under the FOIA.
That’s one reporter making the claim. That’s the same as saying, “I made the claim, and I swear I’m telling the truth.” A claim is not evidence, even if you’re an alleged first-hand witness.
Additional corroboration, ideally in the form of objective evidence, from an unbiased source is needed.
You’re demonstrating the problem right now by completely ignoring half the people who are being killed. I guess you don’t mind civilians being killed if they’re those people.
The article is about leftists who celebrate the actions of Hamas.
Yes, it’s right-wing libel against the left. What’s your point?
Whoopsie, someone fell for misinformation. Did you seriously believe what a politician (Biden) said?
Well for one, some situations are true, as opposed to that one.
https://theintercept.com/2023/10/11/israel-hamas-disinformation/
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It’s really not that difficult to say that Hamas, Hezbollah, and the IDF are all terrible.
Saying something this simple is too nuanced for most people to comprehend and the reason why we are doomed as a species.
our inability to comprehend the exponential function is why we are doomed. the inability to cope with nuance won’t make it a fun ride though.
This may be true, but the violence; whether physical or structural between hamas and IDF is wildly asymmetrical. We can condemn the attacks, but if we are going to deal with this issue and offer solutions we need to address the open air prison, and apartheid state that Israel is operating.
This may be true, but
There shouldn’t be any “but” here. All of them are reprehensible for killing children and civilians. All of them need to be dismantled and destroyed.
So there’s this thing called ‘nuance’
And no small number of supposed leftists found in all this cause for celebration. Others, meanwhile, loudly refused to condemn Hamas’s atrocities, insisting it was not their place to decry the “military strategy” or “violent resistance” of oppressed Palestinians.
Whom? I want names or at least hard numbers. Too many people throw around these nebulous quantities like it is self-apparent support for their claims. You know who else uses that tactic? Dishonest politicians (it’s a favorite of right-wing politicians stoking fear or feigning support).
This reads like someone with confirmation bias and no real data to back it up.
Israel doesn’t get a “Get Out of Warcrimes Free” card just because they had warcrimes committed against them. Fuck Israel, fuck the Hamas. I stand with the citizens on both sides caught in the middle.
There’s just no justification for killing civilians, no matter what you’ve experienced. It’s being done by both. It’s wrong by both.
I see no one celebrating the brutal killing of civilians except for the right wingers who are ok with killing Palestinian civilians in retribution for the killings of Israeli civilians. People should be allowed to live their lives in peace, period.
It really sucks that the attitude of “how about we don’t support anyone who’s violating international law?” can’t seem to survive a massive terrorist attack, whether we’re talking about 9/11 or these horrible events. I absolutely condemn these unforgivable attacks against innocent civilians, and I absolutely condemn any response to those attacks that violates international law by targeting civilians or civilian infrastructure, or by blockading and starving an entire city. I can see daylight between “we stand with Israel” and “we support any and all actions of the Israeli government and armed forces without caveat” but there’s not much room for that opinion in the immediate aftermath of something like this. The ultimate price needs to paid by those responsible, but the City of Gaza didn’t do this, and the Palestinian people writ large didn’t do this. The trillions of dollars and millions of lives wasted in the 20-year War on Terror that 9/11 kicked off needs to be a cautionary tale, not something we look to repeat. To put it another way, we would not blockade, starve, and invade Texas just because a lot of J6ers and other heavily-armed anti-government militia folks happen to live there - we hunt down those actually responsible for actual crimes with precision and ferocity and bring them to justice. We don’t respond to an attack by punishing the entire geographical area and ethnic population from which that attack may have originated. been there, done that, doesn’t ever work. Didn’t work for the Soviets, didn’t work the Japanese, didn’t work for the US, won’t work here.
There are still 100+ hostages from many countries in Gaza. Their only shot is if the Israelis can get information of exactly where they are at. Making the area without electricity, food, etc is one way to compel human intel. But, the clock is running.
“war crimes are okay to save hostages” is certainly a perspective I didn’t expect to read today.
Would you rather leave them to fate? Just add them to the list?
Than commit war crimes? Yeah. Not complex bud. War can be conducted without this type of intentional atrocity.
So theres one vote for no warning. Then you would cry about a surprise attack. There are people in Gaza moving south, so they disagree with you. Btw, according to the news Hamas has advised them to stay in their homes.
Huh? Why are you putting words in my mouth? How would conventional military tactics require surprise attacks?
I don’t support the settlements, but support Israel’s right to exist.
There’s miles of distance between “Israel should have a right to defend itself against Hamas.” and “Israel can only defend itself through war crimes and genocide.”
Trying to tell you that you are presenting a no win position to Israel. Damned if they do, damned if they don’t,
You’re trying to use war crimes as an argument that doesn’t make much sense.
The civilians of Palestine are not responsible for the actions of Hamas, the taking of hostages is not an excuse for warcrimes.
The citizens are not responsible for their rulers…I suppose that’s been a delusion for centuries.
But, you didn’t answer my question.
65% the population in Gaza is under 24. Do you really condone the indiscriminate killing of children?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_State_of_Palestine
I suggest you don’t place the word ‘children’ in your comment a day after I see an Israeli baby in it’s own blood on my TV,
Meanwhile a right that refuses to condemn mass murder just the status quo.
I agree. I condemn Israel for their attempted genocide.
From the title I can’t tell if this is about Hamas or Israel
it’s about duur left
Typical western bellybutton gazing. I have seen more discussion, by far, about how so-and-so is reacting than the actual events.
Westerners treat this like football and pick a team to support. It fucking sucks.
The funny part is that I initially couldn’t figure out which side the headline was talking about at first.
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