The 33-year-old Watts, who had not shared the news of her pregnancy even with her family, made her first prenatal visit to a doctor’s office behind Mercy Health-St. Joseph’s Hospital in Warren, a working-class city about 60 miles (100 kilometers) southeast of Cleveland.
The doctor said that, while a fetal heartbeat was still present, Watts’ water had broken prematurely and the fetus she was carrying would not survive. He advised heading to the hospital to have her labor induced, so she could have what amounted to an abortion to deliver the nonviable fetus. Otherwise, she would face “significant risk” of death, according to records of her case.
That was a Tuesday in September. What followed was a harrowing three days entailing: multiple trips to the hospital; Watts miscarrying into, and then flushing and plunging, a toilet at her home; a police investigation of those actions; and Watts, who is Black, being charged with abuse of a corpse. That’s a fifth-degree felony punishable by up to a year in prison and a $2,500 fine.
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This story is absolutely terrible but it’s, sadly, important to keep them visible so “moderates” know exactly what will happen if republicans take control on a national level. This is the future for all women if they were to take the WH and both chambers of Congress. They already have the Supreme Court for at least 15-20 years even if a Republican is never elected President again.
People have been talking about the possibility of this exact situation for decades. Any moderates who have not heard it simply don’t want to hear it
The public has the memory of a goldfish. We’re less than 3 years out from the single worst administration in the history of this country, and we’re seriously considering putting him back in office.
I personally don’t think that’s cause they forgot, I think that’s cause Americans are way more fascist than most left leaning folks are willing to admit to themselves. The idea the left pushes is that most people are good, but just apathetic and don’t vote. I think many Americans are horrible fascist assholes. We can’t depend on the silent majority, because they suck too.
Evil never sleeps while good just wants to exist in peace.
Good people don’t try as hard to enforce their will because they’re not selfish assholes. Nor can they understand that bad people will literally do everything they can to get their way.
If they’re unwilling to act in the face of darkness then they are no better than that darkness. They are essentially part of that darkness themselves.
Evil grows in the dark … Where the sun, it never shines … Evil grows in cracks and holes … And lives in people’s minds.
I don’t think that most of us are outright fascist, but I do think most of us are not just apathetic, but also willfully ignorant. For one reason or another–lack of education, viewing politics as “boring,” no energy to pay attention beyond headlines, a lack of media literacy–most Americans simply cannot see the impact an administration has on society beyond their immediate experience. For these people, Trump was a guy who said stupid shit, lowered their taxes (ignoring the sleight of hand where the ‘tax cut’ was almost entirely due to changes in tax withholding so the extra money on their paycheck was counterbalanced by a lower tax return), and held a rally when he lost. They’re not explicitly fascist–if the tanks start rolling down their town’s Main Street, they’ll wail and moan about “I never wanted this, how could this have happened”–but to them, things like “economics” or “human rights” or “democracy” or “equality” are boring toys that nerds play with. They’re the type of person that complains about crumbling roads and potholes and bad traffic, then turns around and complains about construction projects to fix the very things they were complaining about.
So I don’t necessarily fully agree that America is more fascist than we like to admit, but I think it’s largely a distinction without a difference–most Americans are perfectly happy to stand by and let fascism take the reigns, to do nothing and complain about anybody who does try to fight against it, right up until it’s too late and THEY’RE the ones up against the wall.
Fair point, but I think it’s not quite as benign apathy as you imply. I think rather a lot of people are racist, or sexist, or believe that ‘sluts that got knocked up deserve to be punished with a baby’. I think the uncomfortable truth that the left hasn’t figured out, is that the nasty stuff trump said was at the very least not offensive to far too many Americans.
We are far, far closer to a society where those white folks in the background calmly watching a lynching of a black guy than we like to believe. They’re not the ones with the rope and they may not have ever done anything explicit themselves, but they’re all fine watching it and spending time with the people who did it too.
Most of American society seems to be that classic, fake white Christian charity group that seems so helpful putting out a meal for the homeless at the holidays while simultaneously hating everyone they can get away with, abusing their family at home, and generally being terrible people that have an outwardly normal appearance.
People who are willfully ignorant and still choose to vote are responsible for the fascists they vote for. I’m tired of pretending they’re innocent because they “don’t know” what they’re voting for.
So you are arguing to not vote and let the fascist win quicker because you are obsessed with political purity & can’t be bothered to talk to your neighbors?
No, I’m arguing for people who are so ignorant they would vote for the fascist to not vote.
The GOP already packed the court by acting in bad faith with Obama. There’s no reason we shouldn’t just appoint more judges. 9 has not always been the size of the court, and the size is not restricted by the Constitution.
Or how about reducing the size back to 7 and removing the 2 newest members?
Far worse than that, Republicans are vying for and have run practice sessions for a “Convention of the States”, where basically states (which are predominantly Republican controlled, in spite of population distributions) can come together and decide which Federal laws they want to adhere to.
Basically, the situation you’re fear mongering over is far closer than even you make out it to be.
A convention of the states is infinitely worse. It is basically a rewriting of the Constitution. Koch has been funding this. In this political climate imagine what happens when we let fascist billionaires create us a new govt. Holy fucking shit.
This is why state elections are so crucially important. We normal non-assholes need to not just vote but be involved in local and state elections. Donating time, money, even running for offices.
States can shield us from a lot of the bad shit happening at a national level if we elect halfway decent people.
A minimum consensus might go some way to fixing things.
A small part of me wants to see them try it. There is a legal means of doing this that has never been tested. There is something amusing about letting someone who has done nothing except being critical handed power that they have no ability to use.
Imagine all those DeSantos types actually given the task of sorting out the constitution. They don’t know how to write an amendment, they wouldn’t be able to agree on wording, they would have no clue how the courts would apply the wording, they aren’t even sure if it would stick because again no one has tried it. It would be who knows how many tens of millions of dollars in lawyer fees and conference hall rentals and travel expenses and committees all to pass something that would break on the first challenge.
But that’s not the way legislation works. The law is written, then it is voted in my representatives, then it is challenged by parties that fall foul of it. Waiting until the very last stage is the least likely method to be successful.
Just call it a confederacy already and get rid of the mixed signals. Half of them still act like they won the damn war anyway, with all their loser worship.
what will happen if republicans take control on a national level.
States don’t have to follow federal law. Just look at cannabis.
There’s a 0% chance Californians go along with any federal restrictions on abortion.
You need to show me a birth and death certificate for that to be a corpse.
And then she gets a child credit in her taxes.
Unrelated fun fact on child tax credits: There is a section of the internal revenue code that states if your child has been kidnapped, you can still claim the dependent.
This means that at some point in time, somebody lost a child, and their priority was maintaining that sweet, sweet credit to the point that they went to court to argue the matter.
Edit: It’s in Internal Revenue Code section 152
(6)Treatment of missing children (A)In general Solely for the purposes referred to in subparagraph (B), a child of the taxpayer— (i)who is presumed by law enforcement authorities to have been kidnapped by someone who is not a member of the family of such child or the taxpayer, and (ii)who had, for the taxable year in which the kidnapping occurred, the same principal place of abode as the taxpayer for more than one-half of the portion of such year before the date of the kidnapping, shall be treated as meeting the requirement of subsection ©(1)(B) with respect to a taxpayer for all taxable years ending during the period that the child is kidnapped.
You’re making it sound like it’s definitely the parent who is somehow being cruddy.
Lawsuits over tax interpretation don’t happen until years after the fact and they’re initiated by the IRS.Alternative explanation: someone’s kid was kidnapped, so they took their taxes to a tax prep person and told them to deal with it. Tax prep person checked the boxes for the credit and submitted the taxes.
Later, the IRS says you can’t claim them as a dependent and that they don’t live in your house without providing an alternative address.
The IRS sues HR block as the agent of the taxpayer and five years later a judge says that you actually can, so the code is updated and a new checkbox added.You bring up a good point. Unfortunately I don’t have access to case law research to trace the origins of the statute.
Nah, I’m pretty sure it was the parent of a kidnapping victim who lobbied their congressperson to make sure their missing kid didn’t increase their tax burden.
I mean, if the kid hadn’t been so obsessed with free candy, it wouldn’t have even been an issue.
I’m hoping there an /s at the end.
I’m always amazed that people would need to see an /s to understand blanantly obvious in your face sarcasm.
Especially when punctuated with a joke about blaming a kidnapped child for taking the free candy.
I have ADHD and autism. I do not see subtleties easily.
I don’t think that is how it happened. It probably happened with all the bullshit that goes down with divorce.
It says in there kidnapped by somebody who is not a family matter, so that’s probably not the origin.
Unfortunately, I don’t have access to legal citators anymore, so I don’t think I’ve got the resources to find the true origins. I haven’t thought about this in years, and now I’m super curious.
They left her waiting, knowing the baby was already dead, increasing her risk of potentially deadly complications. I see no problem here. The dead baby should have been removed.
She should not be charged with anything. There is medical neglect going on here and it’s obvious to me that her life was in jeopardy the longer she carried the dead baby.
I lost my last pregnancy at 20+ weeks due to premature break of my water. I didn’t even realize it had happened, the pregnancy was wanted even if it wasn’t planned, and I am still dealing with the trauma (and the hospital bills). All I can think of is I’m thankful it happened when it did and my doctor didn’t hesitate to induce labor - a medical induced abortion - so my life would be okay. (And I was able to get a copper IUD placed because I know my mental health could not survive the potential loss of another child.)
This poor woman… She is traumatized and our trash legal system wants to fine her and jail her. She needs support and love, not more debt and punishment. I screamed and cried in the hospital surrounded by support medical staff. She was in her bathroom…
This makes my blood boil. The government should have zero say in private medical decisions. Abortion is no one’s first choice.
You see no problem because you are not a brainwashed, religious, misogynistic nutjob with a need to control all women and keep them in their place
So sorry. It is definitely extremely traumatic. We don’t talk about this sort of thing enough. I can’t imagine the horror of facing a devastating loss and going to jail on top of it for doing nothing wrong.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see more women arrested for miscarriages in the future. This is the hellscape of control and misery the GOP wants.
It’s fucking sickening, cruel, ignorant, and disgusting.
The GOP must be stripped of power.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
-Thomas Jefferson
I grew up in Ohio.
Don’t live in Ohio.
Ohio has produced a statistically abnormal amount of astronauts. Ohio is so bad that the people from there have been soured of the earth itself.
Their exit velocity when leaving Ohio is so high that they simply can’t stop themselves from catapulting into space.
Catholic hospital leaves this women sitting and waiting for care while they debate on whether or not to provide treatment because of laws and policies. They never provide her treatment and she goes home. What choice did this poor woman have but to have a miscarriage at home. I can’t begin to imagine the horror and hopelessness this woman endured. She would have been in no good mental state to deal with this and honestly her actions shouldn’t be held against her.
Even if she hadn’t gone to the hospital first, this could happen to anyone. 10-15% of pregnancies end in miscarriage, many of them happen at home. Probably even more, but people don’t always realize even when it happens. Just another example in a long list of many many reasons why these anti abortion access laws are wrong. Her actions are not surprising, why would anyone want to be forthcoming about a miscarriage if just acknowledging it may turn the authorities on you? Accusing you of inducing an abortion?
The mother could have died from these delays in care too, this situation can result in sepsis and other complications. As the fetus becomes exposed to the outside world massive infections, fetal death, and then maternal death can all ensue. The first doctor was right, she should go straight to the hospital. But then the hospital just sent her home multiple times with premature ruptured membranes while they deliberate abortion legalities? That’s a hospital admission for continuous monitoring until delivery or an abortion (depending on specifics and gestational age/viability), not a discharge to home and wait situation.
We need these stupid and dangerous laws all struck down yesterday. Anti abortion access laws kill people.
Even if she hadn’t gone to the hospital first, this could happen to anyone.
Hold up…
Watts miscarrying into, and then flushing and plunging, a toilet at her home;
She miscarried the fetus, and tried to flush it.
Warren Assistant Prosecutor Lewis Guarnieri told Ivanchak that Watts left home for a hair appointment after miscarrying, leaving the toilet clogged. Police would later find the fetus wedged in the pipes.
Ohio’s reproductive rights amendment would have ensured she could have gotten help at the hospital, but it would not protect her from the consequences of trying to flush a fetus.
The hospital would have provided that help if they didn’t fear potential legal action. She wouldn’t have flushed the fetus if she didn’t fear legal action.
The problem here is the laws.
Also, it’s a non viable fetus. It was never alive. It was never given a birth certificate nor a death certificate. Do you believe she should go to prison for a year after all the trauma she’s been through because she flushed it in a state where the law is against her in every way if they find out this even happened?
I think a maximum of 1 year in prison and/or a $2500 fine is a reasonable punishment for deliberately attempting to flush non-flushable wipes into a sanitary sewer.
Since Ohio has adopted its reproductive rights amendment, I would argue that the maximum punishment is rather lenient. If she flushed that fetus today, I’d support the maximum.
Under the conditions she faced back in September, I’d expect a guilty verdict but a suspended sentence.
I guess all I can really say is…what the fuck is wrong with you, man?
What, a suspended sentence is too lenient?
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Uh yes? If a miscarriage at home happens deceased fetal products and placenta come out. If they don’t all come out the person may need the assistance of a doctor and D&C to get everything out, any retained products are very dangerous and can result in sepsis and other issues. People everywhere have miscarriages all the time, they often happen at home, and if far enough along there’s often recognizable anatomy. Did you want her to bundle the remains up in a bag and bring it to the police station or what? It may be good to try and show it to a doctor in some circumstances as sometimes light can be shed on what went wrong. Though not exactly a mystery in this case as premature rupture of membranes was clearly the issue that led to fetal demise. And there’s no specific law in Ohio about handling the products of a miscarriage, other than requiring healthcare providers to offer the remains for burial if the mother chooses. And if the hospital hadn’t denied her obviously needed care because of Ohio’s dangerous anti abortion access laws, this all would have been taken care of in the hospital for her before she had to go through all of this at home. I can’t imagine how traumatic the whole experience must have been.
They’re bending some statute relating to corpses in some extreme way it was probably never intended when it was written, they aren’t even alleging she induced an abortion or anything like that. If they really interpret the statute that way, then yes they have criminalized most miscarriages in Ohio. Miscarriages happen every day. Is it “abuse of a corpse” every time a doctor does a D&C and the hospital doesn’t bury it because the mother didn’t want that? Is it “abuse of a corpse” every time a miscarriage happens at home and someone thought it was just a heavy period? People should not be under obligation to bring fetal remains, placenta, and blood clots to the police for examination or something. What a ridiculous idea, it’s a trying enough time when that happens as it is. Some people may prefer some sort of ceremony or burial, but I really think that’s individual preference and should not be a law. Probably why it’s not a law there already, or most places for that matter.
This was the body of a fetus large enough to clog a toilet. If she had managed to get it flushed down the toilet, it would likely be found by a sanitation worker cleaning out the equipment at a sewage treatment plant. That worker would be expected to inform law enforcement upon discovering any human remains, and law enforcement would be expected to conduct an investigation.
The sewer is not an acceptable method of disposing of intact human remains.
Burying it in her back yard would not have been unreasonable. Burning it in a bonfire would not have been unreasonable. Contacting the doctor’s office or hospital for advice would have been preferable. Flushing it, or throwing it in the trash is not.
The only mitigation is that the laws were shit. A suspended sentence is plenty enough leniency for the piss-poor state of the laws at the time.
So what? Products of miscarriage end up in the toilet sometimes, it’s just facts of life here. It’s kind of a natural place to go when fluids and blood are rushing out of you. Law enforcement discovers it was the product of a miscarriage, and that should have been the end of it. There’s not even a law dictating this, and for good reason. But they decide to stretch some other law to an extreme that shouldn’t apply here, to harass a poor women who suffered a tragedy, exacerbated by a system that failed her multiple times and could have easily resulted in her death. She’s the victim here.
TL;DR her pregnancy was non-viable. She had a miscarriage, into her toilet at home. She tried to plunger the “blockage”, and was subsequently charged with a crime.
The context your tldr is missing is that the hospital she went to ignored her and left her waiting.
Thanks, I skimmed over that.
Her regular doctor told her to go to ER, ER left her waiting while they deliberated over the “legalities” of it, discharging her home just before the legal deadline for a legal medical abortion expired.
Also she was black. For some reason that’s important enough to be mentioned several times.
Didn’t ohio just vote to solidy abortion rights in their constitution? How do you criminally charge someone after having what is essentially a referendum vote on it, and passing it… and then turning around and doing this shit where they just tell the population to get fucked? Is that how I read this?
Unfortunately since it happened in September it happened before the vote took place. Still despicable though
I feel like a good lawyer should be able to work out the situation now that it’s in effect though … no?
It seems absurd to actively pursue a case where the crime is no longer a crime. Like, a reasonable judge would have to dismiss the case … right?
Edit: also worth noting abortion was not actually illegal in Ohio in September, the Ohio Supreme Court had put a stay on laws going into effect/being reactivated post repeal of Roe.
It was passed in November but didn’t take effect until December 7th. This story happened in September.
Soon public bathrooms in America can have birth certificate dispensers for all the miscarriages that are apparently corpses now.
This the Future Republicans want for their Daughters!
Other people’s daughters, their own they think will be magically excused do to circumstance. (Which will match many of the womens circumstance they wished death upon)
It’s an adaptation of the Just World fallacy.
I think it goes like this: "These things happen to people who… well, somehow God knows this is right for them. Probably punishment for something, maybe not. Punishment is less likely if they’re white and church going.
But it happens for a reason. A justifiable one, even if it’s inscrutable."
I think things happen for reasons too. Just not magical ones.
Edits: markdown is more challenging on mobile.
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No. Their own abortions are proper, moral, and necessary. It’s everyone else’s (especially marginal communities) abortions that are a travesty and murder.
For those who may not have read this:
This was a great read
Do you want another civil war… because this is how you get another civil war.
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This is obviously a dumb question, but what the fuck are the legal requirements of a miscarriage? I can imagine her thinking she was glad she didn’t have any more appointments or have to pay a huge hospital bill. What else was she supposed to do, and would she have known?
I once passed a kidney stone and they didn’t say to do anything special with it so I threw it away. Same thing, right?
Yeah that’s the crux of the argument the lawyer is making:
Timko, a former prosecutor, said Ohio’s abuse-of-corpse statute is vague. It prohibits treating “a human corpse” in a way that would “outrage” reasonable family or community sensibilities. “From a legal perspective, there’s no definition of ‘corpse,’” she said. “Can you be a corpse if you never took a breath?”
Howard said clarity on what about Watts’ behavior constituted a crime is essential. “For rights of people with the capacity for pregnancy, this is huge,” she said. “Her miscarriage was entirely ordinary. So I just want to know what (the prosecutor) thinks she should have done. If we are going to require people to collect and bring used menstrual products to hospitals so that they can make sure it is indeed a miscarriage, it’s as ridiculous and invasive as it is cruel.”
She’d already been in and out of the hospital, and so when she got home I’m sure she was so traumatized and confused that she probably thought she just had to release whatever was left and move on. Kinda like what happens in a period. The blood comes out, you flush it and clean up, end of story.
I would imagine the “proper” protocol would be for the doctor to “perform” the procedure in a hospital and dispose of it the same way they do of all biological waste. There is absolutely no way she would have an intimate knowledge of Ohio’s corpse desecration laws. I buried my cat in the back yard and that was that. She should be afforded the same dignity here, since the fetus died in utero.
If it cost but a penny, republicans wouldn’t afford dignity for their own mothers.
And they couldn’t afford it without a bailout from California.
The legal requirement seems to be not to have one.
Stuff like that if people who have not a single clue about pregnancy make laws regarding pregnancy.
This has nothing to do with the case above, but it’s a really bad idea to just throw away a kidney stone. It needs to be analyzed so you can come up with a treatment plan with your doctor to help you avoid future problems.
Oh man and that’s free?
Not in America. But we have insurance, so our medical bills are only… nearing $10,000?
Only $10,000? Why such a discount???
We have “good” insurance and I haven’t had my latest surgery yet (it’s next week), which will bring it up to about $12,000.
I’ve had several. I guess they figured they’d analyzed enough of them.
I missed the part where you said they didn’t say to do anything special with it. Sorry.
In fairness they asked every other time. They might’ve just forgotten, but in any event I had nothing to do with it. No little bottle or anything. Which I’d guess they didn’t give her one either since she wasn’t sent home to pass it. So anyway it went down the toilet in both cases. Maybe I left too much originally unsaid in that parallel.
I just hope you haven’t had to deal with them too often. I had one kidney stone last year, not even a huge one, and they gave me fentanyl in the hospital to deal with the pain, so I definitely sympathize.
Four times confirmed, I think with a fifth that passed without needing to go to the hospital (had leftover Vicodin at home thankfully from back in the days they weren’t quite as stingy with it - for good reasons I understand but I always used my meds responsibly and stopped taking them as soon as I could to save the leftovers for when they were really needed). Thankfully none have needed surgery but they were all nearly that size. I appreciate the empathy and send some of my own. It’s the worst and they just send you home with pain meds and well wishes.
This is horrific on so many levels. I can’t imagine how much trauma this is all causing. 😭
My first step-mother miscarried my half brother’s twin (without knowing she was even pregnant let alone with twins), and the only reason she knew to dig it out of the toilet to be tested was because she was a nurse.
Expecting a traumatized non-medically trained woman to know the same is stupid at best.
Also though, if it’s your first or even second miscarriage in a row, they won’t test it anyway. That’s an optional thing you spend a lot of money on. They straight told me there’s nothing we can do for you and there’s no point in testing after 2, because it’s so common that it’s just normal.
If you go to pass it in the hospital that’s thousands of dollars, and only makes sense if you fear for your life. Dealing with the major period at home on the toilet and with adult diapers is way cheaper and much more comfortable in your grief.
Indeed. And now normal is illegal, apparently.
All true. But this was almost 50 years ago and in Canada.
Although our politicians have swallowed the same cold fruit drink your’s have, we can still count on universal healthcare (and soon universal dental care) to keep us out of that kind of medical debt.
Oh they’ll test it now, and they’ll charge you for it.
Good grief. 🥺
And yes to the comment. 😔
This is a terrible tragic story. Republicans are going to eat shit every time there is a story like this. It’s going to grind on like this until the Supreme Court reverses course. I hope Republicans lose big in the mean time.
