White is not the only high-level cyclist to die in Colorado in recent years. In 2020, Clif Pro Team racer Ben Sonntag was killed by a driver while on a training ride outside Durango. That driver was sentenced to serve jail time in late 2021. In 2021, U.S. masters champion Gwen Inglis was killed by a driver outside Lakewood, Colorado.
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You are trying to blame the victims, and that’s not fair.
People in cars also die on roads, so we can agree that cars are the problem.
Also, these are pro level cyclists who can’t train on bike paths.
Roads should be safe, and it’s not cyclists who are making it unsafe, it’s the cars. We need to find solutions that don’t punish victims.
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Unfortunately, many of these crashes happen on NOT BUSY roads, like out in farm country and rural roads. Cyclists choose these roads specifically to be away from cars and “dangerous roads”, but drivers who speed or aren’t paying attention will kill you no matter where you ride!
Riding in a large group can help to reduce risks, but it’s not even an option for everyone, especially if you are commuting. And even that can simply result in multiple fatalities or injuries when an inattentive driver is close by.
Without any alternatives, except to ride on a road, what other option would a cyclist have? Not ride?
Build cycling infrastructure and it becomes safer. Remove cars and it’s guaranteed to be safe.
And when you consider that the majority of cycling (and pedestrian) fatalities occur in areas where cyclists and pedestrians are expected to be, including bike lanes or crosswalks, you really can’t keep blaming them for causing their own deaths.
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Cycling is not extremely dangerous. Cars are extremely dangerous to everyone in or around them.
Per capita, car driver fatalities are dozens of times more common than pedestrian or cyclist fatalities.
Pedestrians and cyclists just happen to be killed by cars, not because walking or cycling is dangerous, but because cars are!
Should people just cycling indoors? I don’t understand where you’re going with this logic.
Yes, being near cars is unsafe. Driving a car is also unsafe. Seems like maybe we should simply get rid of cars. But since we can’t, we have to work with what’s available.
Why should any pedestrian or cyclist feel that they can’t move freely in any setting, simply because cars are dangerous?
Kids can’t get off a bus because cars are dangerous; you can’t walk across a crosswalk because cars are dangerous; you can’t bike ride anywhere because cars are dangerous; you can’t even stand at a bus stop because cars are dangerous.
Yes, I agree that personal responsibility is important. That’s why I ride with high-viz clothing, lights, reflectors, a bike radar, use hand signals, ride defensively, ride in bike lanes, and do everything else that I’m supposed to do.
And yet drivers in cars still go out of their way to put me at risk by speeding, not using turn signals, ignoring traffic signs/light, ignoring cycling lanes, passing dangerously, not passing when they have ample space, and by being distracted.
When does my personal responsibility end and a driver’s personal responsibility begin? We both have EQUAL legal access to these roadways, but it seems like there’s a complete imbalance of responsibility for road safety.
Should the person driving a multi-ton weapon not have a greater responsibility for operating that weapon, than the bystanders who happen to be in the same area?
The reality is that people have to get groceries, or pick up their kid at school, or drop a letter off in their local post box, or walk to a friend’s house, or get exercise, or simply to enjoy fresh air. They do this on foot or by bike.
None of these activities should involve dying by car, and it’s unfair to put the blame on victims who are simply doing low-risk activities which happen to be close to cars.
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Ok, let’s do this.
Yes. 100%.
Correct.
No. It IS super dangerous because cars are near.
No, it’s dangerous when cars are around, but the solution isn’t to not cycle.
Standing on a sidewalk is dangerous if there are cars around. Moving cars near anyone can make anything dangerous. The problem is cars (and trucks).
Now, if we can agree that cars are the critical variable that makes these situations dangerous (and not the activity itself), then we can move forward with a solution.
If I were to draw a parallel here, it would be guns and schools. Going to school isn’t dangerous, but someone with a gun in school seems to cause kids to die. A lot.
Shouldn’t the solution have something to do with removing guns from the equation, and not the school, or kids going to school? That’s how you can look at cycling (or walking, or using a wheelchair in public, or riding an e-scooter).
The way you’re describing cycling, it’s as if it’s some extreme sport that only crazy people do. That’s not reality. Kids as young as a few years old and people over 100 ride bikes for all sorts of normal, everyday reasons. They aren’t the problem.
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Is an incredibly stupid take on why all obstacles should be removed. Maybe learn how not to hit things that are in the road? Do you hit a motorcyclist? Do you hit other cars? It’s that you are too entitled to slow the fuck down for one minute to safely navigate around an obstacle even when it means taking a human life.
We have the right to ride down the middle of the god damn road in Colorado. The road is not infrastructure intended ONLY for cars, that is just the way impatient people in cars view roads.
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Just read some more about this accident, the road apparently had a shoulder and he was also riding on it.
https://www.npr.org/2023/07/31/1191096086/cyclist-magnus-white-17-dies-accident-car-boulder-colorado?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=RobertHalder%2Fmagazine%2FNews+Bites
No, driving cars is poor judgement.
Just how out of touch do you to be to post this in a fucking cycling forum. I dare not check the comment history of this specimen.
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You follow the rules as well as the typical motorist I encounter on the road.
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You don’t cycle, you are just pissed at cyclists when they slow you down for a minute every once in a while and probably have violent fantasies of running them over for causing this outrageous inconvenience in your oh so important and busy schedule. Fuck off.
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Just get your lazy ass a minute earlier into your shitty truck and you’re good. No need to dream of running people over.
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Despite the tragically high number of totally unnecessary deaths, cycling is still a safe activity. Cycling on roads is a safe activity. The physical benefits of cycling massively outweigh the risks, even if you don’t wear a helmet and cycle in the middle of the road. Cycling adds years to your life, it doesn’t take them away. Your sophistry and concern trolling are just so fucking transparent.
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I used to be the type of person who would be quite anal about “no cycling on sidewalks!”.
But after being a cyclist for the past year, I fully support cyclists using the sidewalk when the roads aren’t safe enough.
Those sidewalks often don’t have pedestrians on them anyway, since they are in very car-centric (or truck-centric!) areas.
Cyclists die much more often per km cycled on the sidewalk compared to the road.
Yes, it’s more dangerous to ride on sidewalks ordinarily.
But much safer to be on a sidewalk than, for example, an underpass with no shoulder and trailers flying by.
It’s the lesser of two evils.
It’s also a point you should probably underline every time you publicly advocate for riding on the sidewalk. People do it because it feels safer, even when it is actually more dangerous. It needs to be done situationally, not by default.
For sure, which is why I made it a point to say “I fully support cyclists using the sidewalk when the roads aren’t safe enough.”
I’d never consider using a sidewalk if it’s a stroad, since there are too many exit and entry points for cars to kill you at. In that case, roads are still the lesser of the two evils.
That’s an excellent and illustrative example. I think most people who are not confident cyclists and have not checked the scientific research would have taken your original comment as encouragement to use the sidewalk on stroads.
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In the road cycling meccas in france and italy there are no shoulders on the road. Not sure how many fatal incidents they have. Saying it’s poor judgement to ride a bike on a road without shoulder seems kinda odd to me though. Narrow mountainous roads are my favorites really.
Cycling on roads is not poor judgment, apologizing for running people over is.
As a civil engineer who works for a municipality, roads are made for all road users, and cyclists have a right to ride on them, or take the entire lane if they feel it’s needed for their safety.
Cyclists totally comprehend how dangerous other road users, primarily vehicles are, but drivers don’t realize they drive what are essentially weapons, and every year American cars get a little heavier, and the nose a little higher, increasing the risk for all road users.