Rashida Tlaib is getting blowback for urging Michigan Democratic primary voters to cast their ballots as “uncommitted” rather than for Joe Biden. But if voters take issue with Biden’s support for Israel’s assault on Gaza, that’s no one’s fault but his own.
  • LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works
    2311·
    9 months ago

    Vote however you want in the primary, get the tantrums and obstinence out of your system. If you don’t vote Biden in the general, you’re absolutely complicit.

    • Cogency@lemmy.world
      176·
      9 months ago

      Agreed, people’s lives are on the line. Republicans have made it very clear they intend to kill more women, lgbtqia people, black people, and other minorities if they regain power.

    • trevor@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      33·
      9 months ago

      If you’re calling the righteous indignation that is the response to Biden enabling a genocide a “tantrum”, you’re doing genocide apologia. If you ever wondered what you’d be doing during the Holocaust, you’re doing it right now.

      • LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works
        52·
        9 months ago

        I’m calling refusing to vote for the only candidate in the race standing between us a fascist dictatorship because his politics don’t perfectly line up with your sensibilities a tantrum, and one which plays games with the future of American democracy.

        If you have problems with Biden, by all means vote someone else in the primary. If you don’t show up to vote for him in November, you’re holding the door open for fascism, just as surely as the most dyed in the wool MAGA idiot.

        • trevor@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
          34·
          9 months ago

          Again, if you have more contempt for the people protesting the genocide than the ones perpetrating it, you’re doing genocide apologia. If you’re spending more time bitching about righteous protests, maybe you should ask yourself why.

          Biden could make it very easy to vote for him. The anger and protests didn’t come from nowhere. If he fails at his job so poorly that other left-leaning people don’t want to vote for him, that’s on him, not the voters.

          • LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works
            31·
            9 months ago

            I have contempt for anyone refusing to stand up to fascism because the person who can stop it doesn’t perfectly fit their political views. Biden already has made it very easy to vote for him - he’s not Donald Trump. If that’s not enough for you, you’re part of the problem.

            • trevor@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
              24·
              9 months ago

              I have contempt for anyone refusing to stand up to fascism

              And yet… you’re out here playing defense for a perpetrator of genocide who is currently licking the boot of the leader of a fascist ethnostate. The problem is weak-willed liberals that make it easy for fascists.

              • LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works
                41·
                9 months ago

                No, there is one fascist threatening to take power in the United States, and you’re offering support for him by attacking the one person who can stand in his way. You think Trump will be any better for the people of Palestine? Neither of the two candidates for president are going to waver in supporting Israel, using that a an excuse to not vote for Biden in the general is disingenuous and makes you as complicit as any other MAGA supporter.

                • trevor@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
                  25·
                  9 months ago

                  If “attacking” means supporting anti-genocide protests, then sure, buddy. Imagine being okay with genocide.

                  Obviously Trump will be as bad or worse for the Palestinians. The problem is that Biden is the one doing it now, when there is this much at stake. Ignoring the whole “Biden is doing a genocide” thing, which you shouldn’t, he’s making it difficult for people to want to turn up to vote for him. That is entirely his fault. As it turns out, people don’t like genocide. Too fucking bad.

                  Also, I like how fascism, as long as it’s outside of the US, is totally fine with you.

          • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
            51·
            9 months ago

            Biden has been merely mild, pretty much what he promised the billionaires. “Nothing will fundamentally change.”

            He did a good job after Trump shit the bed with Covid.

            His big problem is pushing programs that 90% of the country will never see like the Infrastructure and Student Loan plans.

            “Oooh, you’re going to forgive the loans of people who borrowed $12,000 or less and have been making payments for 10 years but are still in debt? Yeah, I’m sure both of those people will be very happy.”

      • GodlessCommie@lemmy.worldEnglish
        47·
        9 months ago

        If the only choice in elections is which grade of evil is now acceptable we do not have democracy.

  • Candelestine@lemmy.worldEnglish
    91·
    9 months ago

    No, actually I’m going to blame Israel, and specifically Netanyahu and his settler and genocidal fans.

    Biden is between a rock and a hard place, no answer he chooses is actually ideal. That just happens sometimes in real life, which is not always easy. Sometimes every answer has some bad consequences.

    • alvvayson@lemmy.world
      62·
      9 months ago

      I fail to see how Israel or Netanyahu has any leverage over the USA to simply not veto a UN resolution that all other Western countries either support or abstain on.

      A US vote against (without veto) or an abstention is entirely within his power to do.

      Also, sidestepping Congress to deliver military aid to Israel is also not something that can be blamed on anyone else than Biden.

      • Candelestine@lemmy.worldEnglish
        4·
        9 months ago

        I blame Israel because they’re the ones doing the killing. People like to point at us “enabling them”, and don’t get me wrong, I do not approve of the weapon shipments anymore. However, I am aware that if we cut them off, or if we passed the UN resolutions, the killing would not stop.

        You do not need thousand pound bombs and 155mm artillery ammo to kill civilians, there are many, many ways to do that, most being even more brutal and indiscriminate.

        The UN resolutions so far have been empty words. They “call for” a ceasefire, without actually putting anything in place to force one. Netanyahu is not going to listen to UN finger-wagging, so these would decrease what little leverage we have over Netanyahu without stopping the killing.

        All the proposed “solutions” so far would simply remove US culpability, we would be less guilty. However, they would not actually save Gazan lives. Only an actual, enforced cease fire can do that. For that, you have to convince Netanyahu to stop. Somehow. Any ideas on how to actually do that?

          • Candelestine@lemmy.worldEnglish
            21·
            9 months ago

            Israel is totally dependent on American and European aid and investment.

            That seems to be the central point your argument hinges on. Any actual evidence for that? Because they trade with more than just the US and Europe. India and Israel have ties, just as one example. They also have domestic military manufacturing and a robust tech industry. Their tanks are not our Abrams for instance, they use their own, called Merkavas.

            Otherwise your belief that the US can just make them stop seems to be based on just a hunch, or maybe something someone told you, or wishful thinking or something. I don’t see the reality of it, beyond what certain propagandists say.

              • Candelestine@lemmy.worldEnglish
                2·
                9 months ago

                I think sanctions are the exact answer, that’s reasonable.

                If all your BDS is aimed at the US and Europe though, you’re not actually stopping Israel. You’re just attacking the west. Which is fine, people can support that if they want. But it’s not saving Gazans unless you’re pressuring other Israeli trading partners too.

                We’re actually doing something to save Gazan lives, even if it’s behind-the-scenes, and complicated. Not just empty words in the UN, which implemented sanctions against South Africa, I’ll remind you, not some empty, toothless “please end apartheid, k thx bye”.

                I just believe in results, and I don’t fall for empty political stunts under the guise of “first steps”. Netanyahu believes in power. So, power is what needs to be used against him. Economic leverage should be enough. Empty words and “first steps” are crap though. Bullshit. Hogwash. Political stunts to fool people, from the same countries that refuse to accept Palestinian refugees. We do accept some, by the way, barely any at all, but at least we take some.

    • GodlessCommie@lemmy.worldEnglish
      34·
      9 months ago

      Biden chose to increase money and weapons to Israel, he is to blame. It’s time to abandon anyone advancing war.

  • halferect@lemmy.world
    11·
    9 months ago

    Nope, If we end up in a Christian fascist theocracy I will blame the people who didn’t vote biden

  • halferect@lemmy.world
    11·
    9 months ago

    Single issue voters are the worst type of voters and show a massive misunderstanding of politics and in this case a massive misunderstanding of how global politics work. These same people would be pissed if we abandoned Israel and every Muslim nation genocide Israel. They would be protesting biden for not helping Israel. They also keep saying biden gave weapons without congress which isn’t true, he authorized sales of weapons to Israel,key word SALES. Israel bought weapons from us, he also did the same with Ukraine by asking a different country to buy weapons from the US as long as their old weapons went to Ukraine without congress. Is what’s happening awful but it’s hardly bidens fault it doesn’t stop.