What is the point of isolating Pine Ridge within the United States to directly relate it to Israel’s treatment of all Palestinians? Pine Ridge isn’t the only indigenous community in the United States. The United States is just farther along the settler colonial project, that doesn’t make it better or incomparable.
Of course it’s better to be further along the colonial project. Probably every country on earth could be considered colonial over some timespan. As that duration goes to infinity, the marginal damage per year inflicted by colonialism goes to zero. (The cumulative damage increases of course, to some upper bound.) This is basic calculus.
I don’t think you’re coming from the worst place, but maybe consider that quantifying marginal units of human suffering isn’t the best framework for this type of discussion.
I’m going to say the folks who’d slit your throat if it makes enough other people feel warm and fuzzy do not have the best framework to reduce human suffering
What you’re missing is that most ethical frameworks see human life as valuable enough that it should only be taken in the most dire of circumstances (usually to prevent at least one more death). So it’s fine to kill an active shooter, but it’s not fine to kill someone who’s stolen a bunch of cars, even if the value of those cars is more than the dollar figure a utilitarian would place on an individual’s life.
A utilitarian will (generally) also see a human life as being so valuable that it should only be taken in the most dire of circumstances. Unlike other people, they are actually willing to calculate exactly how direthat circumstance should be.
You can press a button once that will extend somebody’s life by a month but 90% of that month will be spent in pure agony. You cannot ask them what their preference is. Do you extend their life or not? I wouldn’t press that button. A hospital might.
A utilitarian will (generally) also see a human life as being so valuable that it should only be taken in the most dire of circumstances.
The first link you dropped in this exchange includes articles like “You Can Put A Dollar Value On Human Life.” I just don’t believe people who assign that sort of value to lives, and whose core philosophy is maximizing value, are strictly opposed to trading others’ lives if the math checks out. Strict utilitarianism is basically “The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas.”
I’m sure lots of utilitarians try to put a nicer gloss on this, but that’s the bones of the philosophy.
What is the point of isolating Pine Ridge within the United States to directly relate it to Israel’s treatment of all Palestinians? Pine Ridge isn’t the only indigenous community in the United States. The United States is just farther along the settler colonial project, that doesn’t make it better or incomparable.
Of course it’s better to be further along the colonial project. Probably every country on earth could be considered colonial over some timespan. As that duration goes to infinity, the marginal damage per year inflicted by colonialism goes to zero. (The cumulative damage increases of course, to some upper bound.) This is basic calculus.
I don’t think you’re coming from the worst place, but maybe consider that quantifying marginal units of human suffering isn’t the best framework for this type of discussion.
Absolutely it is. I’m a staunch utilitarian. This is the most effective framework to help reduce human suffering in the modern world.
I’m going to say the folks who’d slit your throat if it makes enough other people feel warm and fuzzy do not have the best framework to reduce human suffering
You’re basically saying it would be unethical to have killed Hitler.
Obviously not.
What you’re missing is that most ethical frameworks see human life as valuable enough that it should only be taken in the most dire of circumstances (usually to prevent at least one more death). So it’s fine to kill an active shooter, but it’s not fine to kill someone who’s stolen a bunch of cars, even if the value of those cars is more than the dollar figure a utilitarian would place on an individual’s life.
A utilitarian will (generally) also see a human life as being so valuable that it should only be taken in the most dire of circumstances. Unlike other people, they are actually willing to calculate exactly how dire that circumstance should be.
You can press a button once that will extend somebody’s life by a month but 90% of that month will be spent in pure agony. You cannot ask them what their preference is. Do you extend their life or not? I wouldn’t press that button. A hospital might.
The first link you dropped in this exchange includes articles like “You Can Put A Dollar Value On Human Life.” I just don’t believe people who assign that sort of value to lives, and whose core philosophy is maximizing value, are strictly opposed to trading others’ lives if the math checks out. Strict utilitarianism is basically “The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas.”
I’m sure lots of utilitarians try to put a nicer gloss on this, but that’s the bones of the philosophy.