So, it really depends on your personal threat model.
For background: the biometric data doesn’t leave the device, it uses an on-device recognition system to either unlock the device, or to gain access to a hardware security module that uses very strong cryptography for authentication.
Most people aren’t defending against an attacker who has access to them and their device at the same time, they’re defending against someone who has either the device or neither.
The hardware security module effectively eliminates the remote attacker when used with either biometric or PIN.
For the stolen or lost phone attack, biometric is slightly more secure, but it’s moot because of the pin existing for fallback.
The biggest security advantage the biometrics have to offer is that they’re very hard to forget, and very easy to use.
Ease of use means more people are likely to adopt the security features using that hardware security module provides, and that’s what’s really dialing up the security.
Passwords are most people’s biggest vulnerability.
I’ve read all this before. If you believe the people who designed and implemented the device and its myriad layers of firmware and software were 1. All acting in good faith and 2. Knew WTF they were doing… then: yes, sure.
Unfortunately that’s way too many strangers for me. Hundreds of people design and code these things. Meanwhile, every week there’s a clever new breach somewhere.
While I do respect that viewpoint, there’s a lot more independent scrutiny of the hardware modules than there are around the parts that would handle any other authentication mechanism you might use.
Just because something isn’t perfect doesn’t mean we should keep using the less good thing that it replaces.
Use the PIN if that’s more your cup of tea, just so long as you move away from passwords, since it’s the HSM that’s the protection, not the biometrics. Those are just to make it easier than passwords.
You should be more worried about your local doctor’s office contracting some cheap-ass company to handle your data and ending up in a branch than being concerned about biometrics.
Or hell, Experian had that insane breach of basically everyone’s information years ago. Biometrics are not the problem, it’s smaller companies that you have to deal with all the time skimping on security because they think they can’t afford it.
And then companies even more shady than Google and Apple and Samsung (loan companies, health systems contractors, banks, credit card companies, insurance companies) have all your data and are more likely to be involved in a data breach.
but realistically it’s not in my personal threat model to be ready to get tied down and forced to unlock my phone. everyone with windows on their house should know that security is mostly about how far an adversary is willing to go to try to steal from you.
personally, i like the natural daylight, and i’m not paranoid enough to brick up my windows just because it’s a potential ingress.
It’s not a great analogy. Your house and its windows are exposed to your neighborhood/community. Your internet device is adjacent to every hacker on the web.
it’s an analogy that applies to me. tldr worrying about having my identity stolen via physical access to my phone isn’t part of my threat model. i live in a safe city, and i don’t have anything the police could find to incriminate me. everyone is going to have a different threat model. some people need to brick up their windows
Assuming the phone’s security works as intended, what you’re saying is true. However, it’s a legit concern that the security is not airtight, and physical access is not actually required to harvest your biometric data.
I know the phone manufacturers make all sorts of claims about how secure biometric data is, but they have a profit motive to do so. I’m not being brick-up-my-windows paranoid by pointing out all the security failures and breaches we’ve seen over the years. Companies that have billions on the line are still frequently falling short at securing their own assets, much less their customer’s data.
I understand biometrics are convenient, and many folks love the ease / coolness factor of using them. Just don’t kid yourself that it’s secure by requiring your physical phone. Once the dark web has a digital copy of your biometric data, it’s compromised forever.
That’s not retrieving the biometric data from the device, that’s retrieving the biometric data from surveillance or physical interaction.
It’s quite specifically the type of threat that most people do not need to worry about.
I’ve avoided willingly using biometrics so far. Though I’m sure our faces, gaits, body shapes, etc, are all stored somewhere, willingly or not.
Say no to biometrics. It’s like having a password you can never change.
So, it really depends on your personal threat model.
For background: the biometric data doesn’t leave the device, it uses an on-device recognition system to either unlock the device, or to gain access to a hardware security module that uses very strong cryptography for authentication.
Most people aren’t defending against an attacker who has access to them and their device at the same time, they’re defending against someone who has either the device or neither.
The hardware security module effectively eliminates the remote attacker when used with either biometric or PIN.
For the stolen or lost phone attack, biometric is slightly more secure, but it’s moot because of the pin existing for fallback.
The biggest security advantage the biometrics have to offer is that they’re very hard to forget, and very easy to use.
Ease of use means more people are likely to adopt the security features using that hardware security module provides, and that’s what’s really dialing up the security.
Passwords are most people’s biggest vulnerability.
I’ve read all this before. If you believe the people who designed and implemented the device and its myriad layers of firmware and software were 1. All acting in good faith and 2. Knew WTF they were doing… then: yes, sure.
Unfortunately that’s way too many strangers for me. Hundreds of people design and code these things. Meanwhile, every week there’s a clever new breach somewhere.
While I do respect that viewpoint, there’s a lot more independent scrutiny of the hardware modules than there are around the parts that would handle any other authentication mechanism you might use.
Pixel phone example iPhone example
Just because something isn’t perfect doesn’t mean we should keep using the less good thing that it replaces.
Use the PIN if that’s more your cup of tea, just so long as you move away from passwords, since it’s the HSM that’s the protection, not the biometrics. Those are just to make it easier than passwords.
You can change PINs and passwords, but you cannot change your biometric data.
It’s about as smart as using your SSN as your username.
The point being that most people do not need to ever change their biometric data, because it isn’t used for remote authentication.
It’s about picking the right threat model, and for most people anything that gets them using the HSM is an improvement to their security.
If you’re that afraid if the people who build phones, why are you ok with using any device that can access the internet?
I like how being cautious with my biometric data is beung framed as irrational fear and paranoia. As if ID theft never happens.
You should be more worried about your local doctor’s office contracting some cheap-ass company to handle your data and ending up in a branch than being concerned about biometrics.
Or hell, Experian had that insane breach of basically everyone’s information years ago. Biometrics are not the problem, it’s smaller companies that you have to deal with all the time skimping on security because they think they can’t afford it.
And then companies even more shady than Google and Apple and Samsung (loan companies, health systems contractors, banks, credit card companies, insurance companies) have all your data and are more likely to be involved in a data breach.
Using biometric data to unlock your phone does not make you more vulnerable to petty criminals.
Not with that attitude! You can absolutely change your face. its rather inadvisable
Face… off…
it’s not a password; it’s closer to a username.
but realistically it’s not in my personal threat model to be ready to get tied down and forced to unlock my phone. everyone with windows on their house should know that security is mostly about how far an adversary is willing to go to try to steal from you.
personally, i like the natural daylight, and i’m not paranoid enough to brick up my windows just because it’s a potential ingress.
It’s not a great analogy. Your house and its windows are exposed to your neighborhood/community. Your internet device is adjacent to every hacker on the web.
it’s an analogy that applies to me. tldr worrying about having my identity stolen via physical access to my phone isn’t part of my threat model. i live in a safe city, and i don’t have anything the police could find to incriminate me. everyone is going to have a different threat model. some people need to brick up their windows
Assuming the phone’s security works as intended, what you’re saying is true. However, it’s a legit concern that the security is not airtight, and physical access is not actually required to harvest your biometric data.
I know the phone manufacturers make all sorts of claims about how secure biometric data is, but they have a profit motive to do so. I’m not being brick-up-my-windows paranoid by pointing out all the security failures and breaches we’ve seen over the years. Companies that have billions on the line are still frequently falling short at securing their own assets, much less their customer’s data.
I understand biometrics are convenient, and many folks love the ease / coolness factor of using them. Just don’t kid yourself that it’s secure by requiring your physical phone. Once the dark web has a digital copy of your biometric data, it’s compromised forever.
like i said, it’s more of a username than a password
First provide proof that you can pull out biometric data out of a secure element in a phone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Krissler?wprov=sfla1
That’s not retrieving the biometric data from the device, that’s retrieving the biometric data from surveillance or physical interaction.
It’s quite specifically the type of threat that most people do not need to worry about.
https://macsecurity.net/view/408-apple-s-secure-enclave-is-exposed-to-a-new-unpatchable-exploit
That’s why I put Linux on my house.
Joke’s on them. My yo-yo diet keeps me safe from accurate body shape biometrics.
Same here. Still using the pattern lock. I’ve never used fingerprint not to even mention face scan.