Damn really? That’s disappointing. I’ve been playing fo3 lately and although I think new Vegas is fun I think there is something to be said about fallout focusing more on how and why prewar society led to the destruction of the world than trying to make new societies and stuff. When you put your effort into creating new societies or having them be facsimile of a real life ideology unironically anything other than communism or anarchism just seems stupid and wrong. That’s what I thought the entire point of war never changing was supposed to be about. It never changes because you have to have a new ideology to actually start a new society. Fallout should always kinda be about the inherent doomed aspect of its own story. Not because nothing good can ever happen, but because the overarching story of fallout should focus on why nothing good could ever come from a society like Americas. You cannot build a new society from those ashes because OOPS ITS ALL LIBS
think there is something to be said about fallout focusing more on how and why prewar society led to the destruction of the world than trying to make new societies and stuff.
I mean, New Vegas does this in that its factions all represent prewar societies or ideologies. It’s one of the ways NV is truest to the original Fallout imo.
I like the idea of a Followers ending too, but having an objective correct and good ending might be a bit on the nose for NV?
New Vegas does this in that its factions all represent prewar societies or ideologies.
I understand that, but there feels like some kind of disconnect with this idea when it’s presented to the player as “you will be making a big decision that will affect how the world works”. I think that’s why I don’t like the idea that you are progressing the history of new Vegas when in reality the stagnation is the point. In fo3 the main story has its own problems from a narrative standpoint, but it feels more like a survival game in that everything you go through is just to get access to clean water whereas new Vegas puts too much emphasis on “the fate of the Mojave”. The good karma ending of fo3 is closer to a FOA ending than anything presented in NV and I don’t think the game was worse for it. It’s worse for a bunch of other reasons, but not that one really.
Nah, it’s just working with the material conditions in the Mojave imo. You can’t just start building communism, so the No Gods No Masters quest is the closest you can come to setting the Mojave on a better path. On reflection I think that’s why I like Wild Card, because it splits the difference of still allowing the game to analyse sad dead old-world ideologies, while allowing the player to do something about em.
Fallout games aren’t really about the stagnation of history, Fallout 2 features lots of societal progression since Fallout. Bethesda definitely wants to wallow in a stagnant world, but Interplay-related staff try to explore the follies of our current (western) world through the stumbling steps of the new one.
But that’s my point exactly, these people are not only nowhere near building communism, they’ve had every bit of left wing thought exorcised from them before the bombs fell. The only idea about communism they could possibly have is Chinese commando field manuals if they can even read at all. This isn’t just a lack of material conditions, the wasteland itself is supposed to represent the ideological landscape of America itself. A barren land not only of resources, but of alternative ideas. Even the different AIs present in the wasteland which would theoretically make the central planning of what resources are left very easy only want to horde wealth or commit genocide. The stagnation of history is imho a central theme of fallout as a medium although maybe one not intended by Interplay.
You cannot build a new society from those ashes because OOPS ITS ALL LIBS
thats like… not true though lmao. like yeah the overwhelming majority are but native peoples as well as many victims of the US’ violence actually live there, and don’t forget that they have plenty of militant movements and people in them that aren’t even remotely lib
Gotcha. On the irl side I’ll say that I don’t see bipoc ideologies as part of the American society that I mentioned in the comment, it would be a genuine break from that. In the game I always took the lack of those ideologies being present as part of the narrative. The entirety of American society in the games have exorcised any and all left wing ideas from it and that would include any and all minority liberation movements before people even made it into the vaults which is why they don’t really exist in the games.
I would argue that even then different minorities and political struggles (new forms of leftism) were definitely still popping up in the Wasteland. I don’t think it’s really possible for a society to completely exorcise any leftist thought in it- When it’s based on true observations, new people will rediscover it.
Damn really? That’s disappointing. I’ve been playing fo3 lately and although I think new Vegas is fun I think there is something to be said about fallout focusing more on how and why prewar society led to the destruction of the world than trying to make new societies and stuff. When you put your effort into creating new societies or having them be facsimile of a real life ideology unironically anything other than communism or anarchism just seems stupid and wrong. That’s what I thought the entire point of war never changing was supposed to be about. It never changes because you have to have a new ideology to actually start a new society. Fallout should always kinda be about the inherent doomed aspect of its own story. Not because nothing good can ever happen, but because the overarching story of fallout should focus on why nothing good could ever come from a society like Americas. You cannot build a new society from those ashes because OOPS ITS ALL LIBS
I mean, New Vegas does this in that its factions all represent prewar societies or ideologies. It’s one of the ways NV is truest to the original Fallout imo.
I like the idea of a Followers ending too, but having an objective correct and good ending might be a bit on the nose for NV?
I understand that, but there feels like some kind of disconnect with this idea when it’s presented to the player as “you will be making a big decision that will affect how the world works”. I think that’s why I don’t like the idea that you are progressing the history of new Vegas when in reality the stagnation is the point. In fo3 the main story has its own problems from a narrative standpoint, but it feels more like a survival game in that everything you go through is just to get access to clean water whereas new Vegas puts too much emphasis on “the fate of the Mojave”. The good karma ending of fo3 is closer to a FOA ending than anything presented in NV and I don’t think the game was worse for it. It’s worse for a bunch of other reasons, but not that one really.
Nah, it’s just working with the material conditions in the Mojave imo. You can’t just start building communism, so the No Gods No Masters quest is the closest you can come to setting the Mojave on a better path. On reflection I think that’s why I like Wild Card, because it splits the difference of still allowing the game to analyse sad dead old-world ideologies, while allowing the player to do something about em.
Fallout games aren’t really about the stagnation of history, Fallout 2 features lots of societal progression since Fallout. Bethesda definitely wants to wallow in a stagnant world, but Interplay-related staff try to explore the follies of our current (western) world through the stumbling steps of the new one.
But that’s my point exactly, these people are not only nowhere near building communism, they’ve had every bit of left wing thought exorcised from them before the bombs fell. The only idea about communism they could possibly have is Chinese commando field manuals if they can even read at all. This isn’t just a lack of material conditions, the wasteland itself is supposed to represent the ideological landscape of America itself. A barren land not only of resources, but of alternative ideas. Even the different AIs present in the wasteland which would theoretically make the central planning of what resources are left very easy only want to horde wealth or commit genocide. The stagnation of history is imho a central theme of fallout as a medium although maybe one not intended by Interplay.
thats like… not true though lmao. like yeah the overwhelming majority are
but native peoples as well as many victims of the US’ violence actually live there, and don’t forget that they have plenty of militant movements and people in them that aren’t even remotely lib
Are you talking about irl or the games themselves?
IRL, though I’m pretty sure both indigenous people and black people as well as the things they went through are real in the Fallout universe
Gotcha. On the irl side I’ll say that I don’t see bipoc ideologies as part of the American society that I mentioned in the comment, it would be a genuine break from that. In the game I always took the lack of those ideologies being present as part of the narrative. The entirety of American society in the games have exorcised any and all left wing ideas from it and that would include any and all minority liberation movements before people even made it into the vaults which is why they don’t really exist in the games.
I would argue that even then different minorities and political struggles (new forms of leftism) were definitely still popping up in the Wasteland. I don’t think it’s really possible for a society to completely exorcise any leftist thought in it- When it’s based on true observations, new people will rediscover it.