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I almost up voted you reflexively because Second Thought often trends towards Marxist Leninist propaganda. But I didn’t have to read far before the ignorance started to gleam through.
In fact, fascism is anti-capitalist
That’s false on the face of it. Fascism is definitionally capitalist. Go check Wikipedia or an encyclopedia of your choice. Any reputable one will tell you that. If you don’t understand that, it’s likely you don’t actually understand what capitalism is. Which would be very on brand for most people educated in America. The indoctrination and propaganda has been very heavy here.
The rest of your “critique” could best be described as disingenuous misrepresentation or flat out misunderstanding if one was generous. I’m not going to rebut it line by line as I generally have no desire to defend Second Thought. But despite them often being misleading and even propagandic. They get far more correct than this critique.
And the definition of capitalism in those same dictionaries. Webster:
an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market
an economic and political system in which property, business, and industry are controlled by private owners rather than by the state, with the purpose of making a profit
Both definitions of facism say it involves strict, top-down control of the economy, and both definitions of capitalism say it involves private (non-government) control. When you get too much government control, it stops being capitalism and starts being mercantilism:
Fascism and totalitarianism adopted mercantilism in the 1930s and 1940s. After the stock market crash of 1929, many nations turned toward trade protectionism to save industry and jobs. They responded to the Great Depression with tariffs and trade restrictions.
In fact:
Both Russia and China continue to promote a form of mercantilism.
The article goes on to say:
In response, leaders like U.S. President Donald Trump advocated expansionary fiscal policies, such as tax cuts, to help businesses. He also argued for bilateral trade agreements between two countries, rather than multilateral agreements between many countries. Mercantilism opposes immigration because it takes jobs away from domestic workers. Trump’s immigration policies followed this mindset.
And just not just Trump, look at Biden’s tariffs against China, those have the goal of increasing domestic production of EVs in a protectionist move, which is very much mercantilist.
When people say “capitalism is the problem” or “capitalism leads to fascism,” what they are usually talking about is mercantilism. That’s the marriage of government and capital, where government interests are served by steering the economy in a certain way, and capital benefits from the strong arm of the government protecting their profits.
So the problem here isn’t capitalism, it’s government control over the economy. Governments should largely restrict themselves to welfare, consumer protection, etc. The more regulations and whatnot start to look like mercantilism, the easier it will be for a strong individual to steer the country toward facism.
That’s not the complete definition. And your ignoring a lot of the disambiguation that comes along with the full definitions. The small piece you quoted is so ambiguous it could apply to any authoritarian group under any economic system. It really seems you’re not engaging in good faith.
both definitions of capitalism say it involves private (non-government) control. When you get too much government control, it stops being capitalism
That’s just absurd. Whether it’s private or public it’s still government. Capitalism as you said is about private non democratic control.
Well then, either capitalism is a thing that’s never existed. And never will. Or it has and it does. After all. Dictators have private ownership too. There’s nothing incompatible about the two.
As you can tell, my post was already quite long. I linked the original definitions to not hide anything.
The problem with fascism is that there isn’t really a single definition that applies everywhere. It’s not really based on any ideology, it’s merely about growing the state for the benefit of the state. It’s authoritarianism sold to the people as benefitting them in some way.
The economic system isn’t really the point, though mercantilism seems to be the go-to, perhaps with a segment of the economy using capitalism until it no longer benefits the state.
Capitalism as you said is about private non democratic control.
Exactly. And facism is more about public, non-democratic control.
I almost up voted you reflexively because Second Thought often trends towards Marxist Leninist propaganda. But I didn’t have to read far before the ignorance started to gleam through.
That’s false on the face of it. Fascism is definitionally capitalist. Go check Wikipedia or an encyclopedia of your choice. Any reputable one will tell you that. If you don’t understand that, it’s likely you don’t actually understand what capitalism is. Which would be very on brand for most people educated in America. The indoctrination and propaganda has been very heavy here.
The rest of your “critique” could best be described as disingenuous misrepresentation or flat out misunderstanding if one was generous. I’m not going to rebut it line by line as I generally have no desire to defend Second Thought. But despite them often being misleading and even propagandic. They get far more correct than this critique.
That really depends on how you define fascist and capitalist I guess.
Here’s a definition of facism from Webster:
And Cambridge dictionary:
And the definition of capitalism in those same dictionaries. Webster:
And Cambridge:
Both definitions of facism say it involves strict, top-down control of the economy, and both definitions of capitalism say it involves private (non-government) control. When you get too much government control, it stops being capitalism and starts being mercantilism:
In fact:
The article goes on to say:
And just not just Trump, look at Biden’s tariffs against China, those have the goal of increasing domestic production of EVs in a protectionist move, which is very much mercantilist.
When people say “capitalism is the problem” or “capitalism leads to fascism,” what they are usually talking about is mercantilism. That’s the marriage of government and capital, where government interests are served by steering the economy in a certain way, and capital benefits from the strong arm of the government protecting their profits.
So the problem here isn’t capitalism, it’s government control over the economy. Governments should largely restrict themselves to welfare, consumer protection, etc. The more regulations and whatnot start to look like mercantilism, the easier it will be for a strong individual to steer the country toward facism.
That’s not the complete definition. And your ignoring a lot of the disambiguation that comes along with the full definitions. The small piece you quoted is so ambiguous it could apply to any authoritarian group under any economic system. It really seems you’re not engaging in good faith.
That’s just absurd. Whether it’s private or public it’s still government. Capitalism as you said is about private non democratic control.
Removed by mod
Well then, either capitalism is a thing that’s never existed. And never will. Or it has and it does. After all. Dictators have private ownership too. There’s nothing incompatible about the two.
As you can tell, my post was already quite long. I linked the original definitions to not hide anything.
The problem with fascism is that there isn’t really a single definition that applies everywhere. It’s not really based on any ideology, it’s merely about growing the state for the benefit of the state. It’s authoritarianism sold to the people as benefitting them in some way.
The economic system isn’t really the point, though mercantilism seems to be the go-to, perhaps with a segment of the economy using capitalism until it no longer benefits the state.
Exactly. And facism is more about public, non-democratic control.