If the goal of a DE is to attract users, Vanilla GNOMEs implementation fails to be attractive to most people as it is too foreign from established standards. Extensions are something that are actively not supported officially by GNOME, so using them would not fix the fact that a user expects a minimize, maximize, and close buttons and will not have them on vanilla GNOME, they will not have a Windowed start menu on GNOME, nor a System tray or traditional taskbar. What this user is saying is not “wrong” as they are saying the developers of GNOME want their DE how they want their DE, and people who prefer a more traditional desktop will most likely not like Vanilla GNOME because of that fact.
No one is entitled to random free custom development work.
Meaning gnome devs themselves are not entitled to the free custom development work of the third party extension devs, and therefore gnome is actively taking advantage of the third party developers(Third-party developers feel undervalued & exploited, potentially leading to burnout and abandonment of projects) while all round making it harder for them to maintain the extensions(GNOME’s decision not to provide a stable API for extensions makes it challenging for third-party developers to maintain their work across GNOME versions).
This is where KDE Community is different, they actively support, communicate, collaborate, etc. with 3rd party devs to build a strong relationship & a strong ecosystem.
In fact, Gnome devs are all around abrasive to the entire Linux ecosystem, including but not limited to the Wayland development team & the development teams of other desktop environments(GNOME’s design decisions, such as only supporting CSD & lobbying Wayland to mandate CSD & the controversy over the accent color protocol, have led to conflicts with the entire Linux ecosystem), their own user base(GNOME’s communication style is dismissive & unresponsive to community feedback), application developers(GNOME’s decisions sometimes force other projects to adapt or create workarounds, as seen with the server-side decoration controversy, further complicating development efforts), third party developers, and even amongst themselves(There are reports of conflicts even within the GNOME development team, suggesting internal tensions).
Gnome will die the second Cosmic (Epoch) DE gets remotely close to 1:1 parity. It will be more stable, it’ll be more feature complete & support modern features, it’ll have a similar level of polish, a similar yet way more flexible design language and the devs will actively work with the Linux ecosystem & so on.
At that point the only people left over for Gnome, are those stuck on x11, and die hard shills/fanboys. Many developers are very much sick of Gnomes shit already and only put up with it because it’s popular.
Perhaps or perhaps not. Every new desk top was going to be better than Gnome when introduced. I remember having such high hopes for Elementary back in the day too. It was so elegant and smooth to use.
System76 is no stranger to desktop development nor Rust-lang. Their team is relatively large, skilled, diverse, and highly dedicated, with years of experience in high-level and low-level development, UX/UI design, and even an OS built from scratch (Redox OS), and so on. Unlike elementary OS’s Pantheon, which builds upon existing frameworks like GTK & forked Gnome components, Cosmic (Epoch) is entirely written from scratch, toolkits and all. System76’s approach is also more comprehensive and ambitious compared to elementary OS. They’re developing native Rust applications like the COSMIC app store, terminal, screenshot tool, and text editor. Early performance tests show promising results, even in virtual environments.
The company’s financial resources also allow for significant investment in COSMIC’s development, supporting a dedicated team and a long-term vision. This contrasts with elementary OS’s more gradual, community-driven growth.
Pop_OS! is also an already very popular distribution, and importantly popular amongst newbies. System76 is also a hardware vendor meaning they can tightly integrate Cosmic with their hardware, and in fact do so much more easily than what they’ve already been doing with Pop_OS!.
Compared to ElementaryOS, System76 is in a much better position.
Wrong. If an extension for your need isn’t enough, you can very simply just use another DE. No one is entitled to random free custom development work
If the goal of a DE is to attract users, Vanilla GNOMEs implementation fails to be attractive to most people as it is too foreign from established standards. Extensions are something that are actively not supported officially by GNOME, so using them would not fix the fact that a user expects a minimize, maximize, and close buttons and will not have them on vanilla GNOME, they will not have a Windowed start menu on GNOME, nor a System tray or traditional taskbar. What this user is saying is not “wrong” as they are saying the developers of GNOME want their DE how they want their DE, and people who prefer a more traditional desktop will most likely not like Vanilla GNOME because of that fact.
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Meaning gnome devs themselves are not entitled to the free custom development work of the third party extension devs, and therefore gnome is actively taking advantage of the third party developers(Third-party developers feel undervalued & exploited, potentially leading to burnout and abandonment of projects) while all round making it harder for them to maintain the extensions(GNOME’s decision not to provide a stable API for extensions makes it challenging for third-party developers to maintain their work across GNOME versions).
This is where KDE Community is different, they actively support, communicate, collaborate, etc. with 3rd party devs to build a strong relationship & a strong ecosystem.
In fact, Gnome devs are all around abrasive to the entire Linux ecosystem, including but not limited to the Wayland development team & the development teams of other desktop environments(GNOME’s design decisions, such as only supporting CSD & lobbying Wayland to mandate CSD & the controversy over the accent color protocol, have led to conflicts with the entire Linux ecosystem), their own user base(GNOME’s communication style is dismissive & unresponsive to community feedback), application developers(GNOME’s decisions sometimes force other projects to adapt or create workarounds, as seen with the server-side decoration controversy, further complicating development efforts), third party developers, and even amongst themselves(There are reports of conflicts even within the GNOME development team, suggesting internal tensions).
And yet KDE is still jankier.
People always talk about extensions breaking… I’ve probably used 5-10 extensions and only one of them broke, and I don’t even remember what it was.
Gnome will die the second Cosmic (Epoch) DE gets remotely close to 1:1 parity. It will be more stable, it’ll be more feature complete & support modern features, it’ll have a similar level of polish, a similar yet way more flexible design language and the devs will actively work with the Linux ecosystem & so on.
At that point the only people left over for Gnome, are those stuck on x11, and die hard shills/fanboys. Many developers are very much sick of Gnomes shit already and only put up with it because it’s popular.
Only if it becomes the default install of the major distros. That, I think is a major hurdle, not even KDE has been able to leap that.
It’s already going to be the default on one of the major distros at launch; Pop_OS! by System76. It’ll grow in popularity pretty quickly.
Perhaps or perhaps not. Every new desk top was going to be better than Gnome when introduced. I remember having such high hopes for Elementary back in the day too. It was so elegant and smooth to use.
System76 is no stranger to desktop development nor Rust-lang. Their team is relatively large, skilled, diverse, and highly dedicated, with years of experience in high-level and low-level development, UX/UI design, and even an OS built from scratch (Redox OS), and so on. Unlike elementary OS’s Pantheon, which builds upon existing frameworks like GTK & forked Gnome components, Cosmic (Epoch) is entirely written from scratch, toolkits and all. System76’s approach is also more comprehensive and ambitious compared to elementary OS. They’re developing native Rust applications like the COSMIC app store, terminal, screenshot tool, and text editor. Early performance tests show promising results, even in virtual environments. The company’s financial resources also allow for significant investment in COSMIC’s development, supporting a dedicated team and a long-term vision. This contrasts with elementary OS’s more gradual, community-driven growth.
Pop_OS! is also an already very popular distribution, and importantly popular amongst newbies. System76 is also a hardware vendor meaning they can tightly integrate Cosmic with their hardware, and in fact do so much more easily than what they’ve already been doing with Pop_OS!.
Compared to ElementaryOS, System76 is in a much better position.
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