I don’t think arguments like this work very well because they’re not consistent to our “allyship isnt transactional” argument when talking about homophobia in Palestine.
I don’t think Ukraine is like Palestine, but radlibs do. So it falls completely flat.
Eh the people I’m talking about are not stuck in their position at all lol. I’ve been able to talk about how that Slava Ukrani shouldnt be there multiple times without even any pushback, and when I suggested replacing with Free Palestine there was some agreement.
Idk why this forum refuses to believe this because its demonstrably true if you actually talk to people but there are plenty of well meaning radlibs who haven’t looked at the Ukraine issue beyond seeing Putin as the aggressor and therefor the bad. Plus on Twitter I’ve met Maoists who are :palestine-flag: :ukraine-flag: for like natlib reasons but are very critical of Ukraine and western russophobia and dont like Nato. So this forum makes a lot of assumptions about people that dont reflect if you actually talk to people. Are there smug Vaushite types who are too entreched to listen? Sure. Plenty. But its not all of them. So giving up on ANYONE who is pro-Ukraine currently is… dumb? Idk why this forum is constantly doomering about reaching people as if they were not themselves presumably liberals at one point of their lives.
So no I’m not going to use arguments that don’t work on people who are still very much moveable lol. Don’t assume everyone with certain opinions are entrenched.
Idk why this forum is constantly doomering about reaching people as if they were not themselves presumably liberals at one point of their lives.
The mean age on this site seems to be around 30, ie people who grew up during the Iraq War and were probably radicalized by it. I think the experience of watching people be rabidly pro-War, slowly realizing the war was bad and quietly editing their opinions over time till the point even a lot of politicians who openly called for it deny they ever supported it, to seeing Liberals become even more hawkish than conservatives once the memory of the war had faded and US hegemony starting to be threatened black pilled a lot of us on the hope Westoids could ever have their heads pulled out of their ass. It does feel like if the War on Terror didn’t teach you your lesson you ain’t never learning it.
Idk why this forum refuses to believe this because its demonstrably true if you actually talk to people but there are plenty of well meaning radlibs who haven’t looked at the Ukraine issue beyond seeing Putin as the aggressor and therefor the bad.
It’s really not “demonstrably true”. I’m not doubting your personal experiences here but maybe consider you’ve stumbled on a unique and statistically rare group of open minded Libs? Or maybe they’re not really even that open minded but just kind of passive and let any mildly articulate person talk them into whatever, so the second the media blitzes them with some more pro-West propaganda they’re going to forget everything you told them.
There’s just as many stories on this site about people trying to talk to the Libs in their life and being meet with infinitely high and thick brick walls of bullshit. If you’re having success educating a few people I think that’s awesome and celebrate your efforts, but a lot of others have tried and found it’s not worth it and I don’t blame them.
I don’t consider it doomerism, I consider it soberly assessing the situation and accepting it. Doesn’t mean we’re doomed but it does mean we should try and understand where we can and can’t do good so we can better direct our energies.
WHAT YOU DON’T LIKE QUEER NAZIS NOW!
I wonder what they think on how the last pride parade in Kiev went
I don’t think arguments like this work very well because they’re not consistent to our “allyship isnt transactional” argument when talking about homophobia in Palestine.
I don’t think Ukraine is like Palestine, but radlibs do. So it falls completely flat.
I don’t think any argument works very well because they insufferable smuglords
Eh the people I’m talking about are not stuck in their position at all lol. I’ve been able to talk about how that Slava Ukrani shouldnt be there multiple times without even any pushback, and when I suggested replacing with Free Palestine there was some agreement.
Idk why this forum refuses to believe this because its demonstrably true if you actually talk to people but there are plenty of well meaning radlibs who haven’t looked at the Ukraine issue beyond seeing Putin as the aggressor and therefor the bad. Plus on Twitter I’ve met Maoists who are :palestine-flag: :ukraine-flag: for like natlib reasons but are very critical of Ukraine and western russophobia and dont like Nato. So this forum makes a lot of assumptions about people that dont reflect if you actually talk to people. Are there smug Vaushite types who are too entreched to listen? Sure. Plenty. But its not all of them. So giving up on ANYONE who is pro-Ukraine currently is… dumb? Idk why this forum is constantly doomering about reaching people as if they were not themselves presumably liberals at one point of their lives.
So no I’m not going to use arguments that don’t work on people who are still very much moveable lol. Don’t assume everyone with certain opinions are entrenched.
The mean age on this site seems to be around 30, ie people who grew up during the Iraq War and were probably radicalized by it. I think the experience of watching people be rabidly pro-War, slowly realizing the war was bad and quietly editing their opinions over time till the point even a lot of politicians who openly called for it deny they ever supported it, to seeing Liberals become even more hawkish than conservatives once the memory of the war had faded and US hegemony starting to be threatened black pilled a lot of us on the hope Westoids could ever have their heads pulled out of their ass. It does feel like if the War on Terror didn’t teach you your lesson you ain’t never learning it.
It’s really not “demonstrably true”. I’m not doubting your personal experiences here but maybe consider you’ve stumbled on a unique and statistically rare group of open minded Libs? Or maybe they’re not really even that open minded but just kind of passive and let any mildly articulate person talk them into whatever, so the second the media blitzes them with some more pro-West propaganda they’re going to forget everything you told them.
There’s just as many stories on this site about people trying to talk to the Libs in their life and being meet with infinitely high and thick brick walls of bullshit. If you’re having success educating a few people I think that’s awesome and celebrate your efforts, but a lot of others have tried and found it’s not worth it and I don’t blame them.
I stand by thinking doomering about reaching people being a bad practice but ok I recognize your personal experience.
I don’t consider it doomerism, I consider it soberly assessing the situation and accepting it. Doesn’t mean we’re doomed but it does mean we should try and understand where we can and can’t do good so we can better direct our energies.
I accept you experiences too.