• Schmuppes@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    Can’t watch the video right now, but I can say that I’m very conflicted about the guy. I visited Mittelbau Dora not too long ago, which is the underground production site they dug into a mountain to produce the V2 rockets when things had gone sideways in the war.

    Historians pretty much agree that von Braun had visited the site on multiple occasions and must have known that it was staffed with forced laborers under horrendous conditions. He actually requested those people if I remember right. He was also a party member and ranked pretty high in the Nazi leadership.

    From what I know about him though, I get the feeling that he was not among the worst at the time. Was he okay with forced labor dying in the production facilities he was ultimately responsible for? Probably, likely even. On the other hand, he was an incredible scientist and engineer and probably had to make the best of the political circumstances at the time, while he was driven by his crazy ambition to advance his field and build the awesome rocket engines that he dreamed about.

    The US just flying him over without any consequences for his actions was shitty, but then again: Would it have been better to let the Soviets snag him first? Probably not. He’s one of the figures you just cannot put in either the “Good” or “Evil” drawer.

    • RegalPotoo@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Tim Harford did a really excellent podcast series about the V2 generally, and von Braun specifically: https://timharford.com/2024/02/cautionary-tales-supersonic-nazi-vengeance-v2-rocket-part-1/

      Content warning: it’s pretty tough listening in places. It doesn’t pull it’s punches describing the atrocities committed at Mittelbau.

      The picture it paints of von Braun is one of a man who was focussed on his goal, and would do anything to achieve it. He joined the Nazi party because it got him political connections to finance his research - he wasn’t a particularly enthusiastic Nazi, but being in the party got you in front of people with the money to pay for his research, and he didn’t care that the research would be applied building bombs. He used slave labour to build his rockets because it was cheap and expedient and he didn’t care about the people being starved and beaten - he didn’t hold any particular malice, he just didn’t care. He surrendered to the Americans rather than the Soviets because he guessed that he’d have greater autonomy working with the Americans - he wasn’t interested in who got to the moon, just that someone did.

      To me, this disregard puts him pretty clearly in the evil column. He isn’t like Fritz Haber (inventor of synthetic fertiliser averting countless deaths from famine/massively reduced the cost of explosives and a significant part of how deadly WW1 was) who was very aware of how dual-use his invention was

      • Schmuppes@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Oh yeah, parts of what he did were pretty evil. I’d just say he was not quite Mengele-levels of evil and was pretty flexible, unlike those that were hardcore Nazis til the end when the Mossad had hunted them down.

  • Justas🇱🇹@sh.itjust.works
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    3 months ago

    Spoken introduction:

    And what is it that put America in the forefront of The nuclear nations? And what is it that will make it Possible to spend twenty billion dollars of your money To put some clown on the moon? Well, it was good old American know-how, that’s what, as provided by good Old Americans like Dr. Wernher von Braun!

    Gather 'round while I sing you of Wernher von Braun

    A man whose allegiance

    Is ruled by expedience

    Call him a Nazi, he won’t even frown

    “Nazi, Schmazi!” says Wernher von Braun

    Don’t say that he’s hypocritical

    Say rather that he’s apolitical

    "Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?

    That’s not my department!" says Wernher von Braun

    Some have harsh words for this man of renown

    But some think our attitude

    Should be one of gratitude

    Like the widows and cripples in old London town

    Who owe their large pensions to Wernher von Braun

    You too may be a big hero

    Once you’ve learned to count backwards to zero

    "In German, und Englisch, I know how to count down

    Und I’m learning Chinese!" says Wernher von Braun