Seeing a lot of hate and schadenfreude over spez and what he’s doing with Reddit.

I feel this is really uncalled for.

What no one seems to understand is that Reddit is unprofitable.

You know what happens to unprofitable tech companies? Think of Geocities shutting down. How many great websites, how many communities were lost?

I can see that spez is trying the best he can to save Reddit. He was one of the original founders. This is his baby. He doesn’t want to see it die.

His plan is clear to me.

Reddit is getting too much traffic. It’s too big and has too many users, moderators, and communities.

So this means Reddit needs a lot of employees. Someone asked why Reddit needs 2000 employees? Well, where do you think the admins come from? I bet most of them are the hardworking admins who form the bridge between Reddit and the communities.

Since Reddit is so big, perhaps too big, it’s hard for them to be profitable. Opportunity cost on users using third party apps means that Reddit has to charge them high prices to make up for lost ads revenue. That’s unavoidable.

Okay, sure, maybe some third party apps will agree to run ads in return for lower rates or something. That can work.

Reddit doesn’t have an existing way to feed ads to third party apps. I’m don’t have experience in that field but I bet developing something like that takes a lot of time. It’s also uncertain as Reddit may spend many long months, if not years, developing a way to serve ads to third party apps only to find no takers. Too big a risk.

Remember, the IPO is supposed to happen later this year. Not enough time to develop it and do it right.

So he has no choice but to go in hard against the third party apps. They pay up and make up the cost. If they can’t, then they die. Sucks to be them. Their users go to the official app, and get the ads from Reddit. Revenue is saved.

Maybe they don’t. Maybe those users quit Reddit altogether. This means less traffic, so fewer expenses for Reddit. Less expenses meas more revenue. Revenue is saved again.

Moderators quit? No problem. Reddit will find new ones or replace them with admins.

Not enough moderators? No problem. Reddit can shutdown the smallest communities that bring in the least revenue. Admins can run the biggest ones.

Section 230? No problem. Reddit adds a new review required mode. Maybe this already exists. Every thread posted is hidden until an admin reviews and approves it. Same for every comment on a thread. This way they can make sure there is no libel or copyright infringement or any other issues before approving.

Need too many admins to review and approve things timely? No problem. Charge users to be able to jump the queue. Those who do not want to pay up then just need to suffer wait times of many months or even years before they can get reviewed and approved.

Less traffic means they need fewer admins. Fewer employees. More layoffs. A more profitable Reddit.

It absolutely sucks that the moderation tools are not ready yet and moderators have to suffer. It sucks worse that those with accessibility needs have fewer options now.

Would it not be worse if Reddit dies altogether? Think about losing those communities. You can’t talk to the folks you used to in your subreddits. You have no way to go back and see your own threads, or the useful advice from fellow members of your community. It’s all gone.

I have already been through this several times. It hurt to lose Geocities. All MySpace content also gone.

Do YOU want to be responsible for this happening again?!!!

Please do not let this happen again. Please help spez save Reddit.

Give Reddit time. Let spez save Reddit and turn it into a money-maker. Once he does this and Reddit is no longer in danger of being shut down for being unprofitable, then Reddit will have breathing room to solve these issues. A profitable Reddit with a successful IPO will have more cash to spend on recreating the lost moderator tools and accessibility features from third party apps.

FIrst Reddit must manage to survive.

Because Reddit is on it’s death throws now.

Because there’s no way spez would destroy the trust he’s built with the Reddit communities. Unless it is the only way to save the soul of Reddit.

This is why Reddit and spez must win.

P.S. Reddit and spez winning does not mean that we have to lose. If Reddit wins and becomes profitable then the communities are saved. There will be no Geocities or MySpace loss. At the same time a lot of moderators and users who are upset at being monetized will come here. Our communities here will be enriched by this and will continue to grow and blossom. Everybody wins! We can all be winners here!

    • Emotional_Series7814@kbin.social
      7·
      1 year ago

      I do not agree with her, I think this is overly optimistic. I don’t think Spez is going to try to actually fix the problems after Reddit becomes profitable. I think if Spez’s motivations were more money for more employees he would have actually said so. I think we’re just going down the usual path of enshittification and squeezing users for as much money as possible without anything for us down the line. But I do think that she should be able to at least post disagreement on this topic instead of staying quiet because it doesn’t match the general sentiment on the site. She seems to be posting in good faith.

        • spez_fangirl@fedia.ioOP
          0·
          1 year ago

          I am hopeful that spez means that the protests are just noise compared to the goal of profitability. Concerns that do not need to be dealt with immediately. This is a far cry from not giving a damn.

          • Alex@geddit.socialEnglish
            5·
            1 year ago

            Huffman’s response to almost every question asked by Jay Peters reeks of spite. Every response has a passive (or not) aggressive undertone. The responses are laced with defensiveness. It’s the behavior of a petulant child. Huffman is trying to imply that third-party apps took advantage of Reddit to build successful businesses on the back of its API, but that’s simply not true. https://9to5mac.com/2023/06/15/reddit-blackout-third-party-apps/

            Throughout the interview, Huffman repeatedly says that Reddit is “willing to work with the apps that are willing to work with us.” But that offer only seems to apply if you agree to the imminent deadline, agree to the as-proposed API pricing, and agree to not ask for any changes or further clarification.

            Okay then. I guess by your logic, these are the actions of a person who cares about his users. By making the API access so economically unfeasible, it prices out the majority of developers (not saying it should be free, either but let’s be reasonable).

            If you’re so convinced he wants to do good by the users (he doesn’t) and nothing can change your mind, why are you here? Nothing we say is going to convince you and nothing you say is going to convince us. Not by any means trying to silence you, you have a right to your opinion but really, why are you here? I can produce article after article, quote after quote and none of it is going to change your position. What are you hoping to achieve?

            • spez_fangirl@fedia.ioOP
              0·
              1 year ago

              That looks quite bad. The best I can hope for is that this was a hostile interviewer who mischaracterized spez.

              My point still stands. Maybe the reason spez is so defensive is because he knows he has to succeed here or Reddit dies? Maybe spez tried to make the pricing more reasonable and that is why it took Reddit so long to give an answer on the numbers? Maybe spez realized that because of Reddit’s poor financials there wasn’t really a way to come up with reasonable pricing, that clawing back the opportunity cost was the only way? Maybe spez is like this because Reddits financial situation is that bad and he is getting increasingly desperate?

              Even if spez is the devil, there is no way for Reddit to continue as it is now. It is bleeding money. It is hard enough to become profitable under the conditions that Reddit is under. Asking Reddit to provide extra things for free or even for just barely unreasonably cheap is not going to help at all.

              Maybe Reddit is pure evil. Our best chance at saving Reddit is still to help Reddit become profitable first and then hope that once it no longer has to worry about failing that Reddit can be reformed into a company that cares about and listens to it’s users and it’s communities.

              Why do you assume that there is nothing you can do to change my position? I am here because I believe we can save Reddit and the communities. I hope that I can inspire others as well.

              As painful as it would be I am still open to the chance that I am just plain wrong and the doom of GeoCities is about to repeat itself with nothing that can be done by anyone or anybody to prevent it from happening again this time to Reddit.

              • abff08f4813c@kbin.social
                4·
                1 year ago

                It was not just this one time or one interview. spez lied about the Apollo dev and tried to drag his name in the mud, forcing the dev’s hand and making him feel compelled to release recordings to clear his own name.

                Before the numbers for the API pricing were announced, the devs and the mods who had a direct line with the admins all agreed that reddit was at least being highly professional about things.

                Notice how no one is saying that anymore? Doesn’t that tell you something?

                We shouldn’t help reddit when all we get in return is contempt from a Musk-wannabe. In fact, you want us to give up our best leverage here - take away the user generated content and the hard work of the mods to keep that content high quality, and there’s nothing for reddit to offer to advertisers.

                With a guy like this in charge, reddit probably is lost anyways. (Not that reddit would die right away necessarily, myspace is still around after all.) But more on how the trust with the mods and the users of subs is now broken. They will never be the same again. So let’s go and build something better here, where we don’t have to deal with this kind of crud.

      • spez_fangirl@fedia.ioOP
        1·
        1 year ago

        Thank you for respecting my views even when they disagree with your own.

        You could be right. I could be overly optimistic. What if spez and other top management and developers leaves after getting rich from the IPO and Reddit crashes and burns without them? Maybe spez stays on as CEO after the IPO but continues to ignore the protests because he thinks actually addressing these issues will hurt Reddit’s profitability and he doesn’t see a way out.

        If spez will not deal with these concerns of accessible moderation tools after profitability, how can we expect him to do so before then? Put a different way, there is a chance that spez might actually fix the problems after Reddit becomes profitable. Fixing them before is impossible. There’s no chance of that happening.

        I never said spez wants more money for more employees. The opposite is going to be true. Reddit will have more layoffs before it gets in the black. Reddit admins will lose their jobs. We are not the only ones suffering. This is exactly why we must stick together to support Reddit and help it become profitable.

        I could be overly optimistic. It seems our best chance remains having a benevolent CEO of a profitable Reddit. Without the profitable part, the benevolent part does not matter.

        • abff08f4813c@kbin.social
          6·
          1 year ago

          I think that’s it, really. This only works if we have both a benevolent CEO of Reddit and a profitable Reddit. I don’t need to repeat what others have already quoted and linked to in this article, but I think at this point it is crystal clear - spaz has shown his true colours and he is not benevolent. Helping Reddit make bank at this point would only enrich a guy who seems to hate his user’s guts. We’d not get a single thing in return for our efforts, so why bother? That’s better spend on the fediverse.

          Edit: TBH I get the impression that spez would totally kill off Reddit if he thought he could get a big enough payday.

        • Emotional_Series7814@kbin.social
          1·
          1 year ago

          No problem, it’s not like you came in here disrespecting our views.

          I got the “more money for more employees” thing from

          Reddit is getting too much traffic. It’s too big and has too many users, moderators, and communities.

          So this means Reddit needs a lot of employees. Someone asked why Reddit needs 2000 employees? Well, where do you think the admins come from? I bet most of them are the hardworking admins who form the bridge between Reddit and the communities.

          Since Reddit is so big, perhaps too big, it’s hard for them to be profitable.

          But it’s definitely possible I misinterpreted you!