• oberstoffensichtlich@feddit.org
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      1 month ago

      Jews founded a state of their own in 1948. Forgiveness of others is independent of building a safe home for your people.

      • filister@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        On a land that didn’t belong to them. And in the process killed 15000 Palestinians and expelled 750.000 to create their dream ethno state. Prior to 1900 very few Jews were living there and the local population was mostly Arabs.

        • oberstoffensichtlich@feddit.org
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          1 month ago

          The League of Nations created a mandate for the foundation of a state for the Jews in the Levante. So there’s a basis in international law for it.

          Most of the land on which Israel was founded in 1948 was state owned land and land owned by Jews they had purchased.

          No Palestinian would have lost their land, if the partition plan would have been accepted. Instead they chose war and lost it.

          Prior to 1900 the land was only sparsely populated in the first place.

          More than 800,000 Jews were expelled from Arab and Muslim countries in the region and had to flee to Israel. It was a population exchange like India and Pakistan around the same time.

          • filister@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            The Jewish Agency, the recognized representative of the Jewish community, accepted the plan, which assigned 55–56% of Mandatory Palestine to the Jews. At the time, the Jews were about a third of the population and owned around 6–7% of the land.

            And then you wonder why Arabs weren’t happy. Would you be happy if someone comes to Germany and tells you from now on, 55% of Germany belongs to Turkiye?

            But arguing with you and trying to show you the other point of view is like fighting with windmills.

            • oberstoffensichtlich@feddit.org
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              1 month ago

              A huge part of the land for the Jewish part was the Negev desert. And as I said most of the land in general was state owned. Lots of Jewish immigration was expected, which would quickly change the population disparity as well.

              You can read the old documents about how they arrived at the plan on the UN’s website.

              • filister@lemmy.world
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                1 month ago

                So you are trying to tell me that if you were on the other side of the fence you would be happy if some colonial Western countries gave your land on a silver platter to an ethnic group, consisting of new emigrants who were not even living there before 1900.

                I have all the compassion for the Jews and what they experienced in WWII. But this doesn’t also give them a carte blanche to expel people from their own homes and declare Israel as an ethno state.

                The reality is that Israel has killed and destroyed a lot more civilians and their infrastructure compared to any of their proclaimed terrorist neighbours. And then it is just logical to ask who is actually worse, the so-called terrorist organisation, or the state of Israel of their indiscriminate killings. And believe me, through the years Israel committed well documented plenty of human rights violations, war crimes, etc.

                You know if you disregard international law so blatantly, you are creating a dangerous precedent and other countries would do the same. The whole idea of those international laws is to prevent large scale conflicts and to minimise the civilian casualties. But nowadays no one bats an eye if Israel breaks another one.

                And this double standard, is infuriating. Because if you are a war criminal, you should be put into jail, no matter your country of origin, skin colour, religion, etc.

                And the same applies to Hamas and Putin, of course.

                Instead we have Israel trying to sabotage the international criminal court, tapping phones, blackmailing prosecutors and on top of everything else the US is considering sanctioning the prosecutors just because they dared to issue an arrest warrant for Bibi and Gallant. That’s how rotten our world is.

                • oberstoffensichtlich@feddit.org
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                  1 month ago

                  The reality is that Israel has killed and destroyed a lot more civilians and their infrastructure compared to any of their proclaimed terrorist neighbours

                  Take a look at Syria or Yemen, if you get the chance. Israel is the strongest military in the region and has good civil defense infrastructure as well with bomb shelters in every house. Hezbollah and Hamas could just not attack Israel and they would be left alone.

                  • filister@lemmy.world
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                    1 month ago

                    The way Gaza and the West bank are left alone, behind big walls, with plenty of checkpoints, restricting the free movement of people and stock with severe economic sanctions and so on. Oh what a paradise on Earth.