Update on the conflict in Ukraine for September 22, 2024… - Russian forces continue advancing along the line of contact;- Ukrainian sources are claiming to h...
We’re not posting THAT. No one in their right mind would post shit like this, except maybe in “Shit Reactionaries Say”.
As for this whole argument… It is incredibly dogmatic (as in “lib purity/moralism”) and unhelpful. I do not give a damn about what this guy’s chud takes on vaccines are, we’re not posting his videos to promote his channel. I for once care about primarily two things: 1) “what effect does a specific article or piece of work have on the people, what sort of message is it trying to propagate?” and 2) “Is it in any way useful for the revolutionary cause?”
If answers to both of these questions satisfy me, I’m probably going to be fine with it. And I don’t think MLs should be engaging in this sort of ultra-left purity shit. Information is information, even if a chud presented it. It’s everybody’s job to critically assess it.
I gotta have this exact same argument when The New Atlas states that some reactionary military government is good actually, and people on Hexbear and Lemmygrad are like “oh no the Myanmar junta is anti-American, that’s why we should support them in their bloody civil war”.
You ignored my comment on the global warming and vaccine thing. I honestly don’t find this to be a productive convo if you’re just going to completely ignore everything I’m saying and go to insults of “ultra-left purity shit”.
The New Atlas states that some reactionary military government is good actually
Then no one is going to post that. We’re only posting that we deem useful. In any case, most people on this instance are capable of dissecting reactionary bullshit. And, you should not take anyone’s word uncritically, even if it’s coming from Marxists - no one knows everything, everyone can make mistakes.
if you’re just going to completely ignore everything I’m saying
Interesting. Multiple people explained it succinctly, but it is us ignoring you and not the other way around. At the very least address the counterpoints presented to you.
>The New Atlas states that some reactionary military government is good actually
Then no one is going to post that.
I swear to go, it happens all the time.
if you’re just going to completely ignore everything I’m saying
“and go right to insults”. Finish the sentence. “Lib purity” is not being against a guy who’s hard right? Like I can get there’s a case for disagreement, but come on.
“Lib purity” is not being against a guy who’s hard right?
No. “Lib purity” is dismissing all information from a source you disagree with, even if some information coming from them is factual and truthful, specifically because they’re a chud. I stress again - we are against the guy, overall. But just because HE said something does not make that something untruthful. We CAN engage with the information critically. We don’t live in a world where every source is a ML and we can just consume information without fear of it being compromised. It is no reason to not post good bits. And by the way, I watched the video - there is nothing reactionary in it. If there was - I’m sure there would have been a disclaimer.
Imagine canning Lenin because he supposedly had some socially conservative takes.
We did not ignore completely what you were saying, we addressed your issue with not posting Berletic’s takes on Ukraine and explained why this sort of thing is dogmatic.
“oh no the Myanmar junta is anti-American, that’s why we should support them in their bloody civil war”.
Isn’t critical support exactly for this purpose? People support Hezbollah for their stance on the colonization and genocide of Palestine, but not necessarily all of their other takes on lgbt people. Or what about Assad and his beliefs that gay couple shouldn’t be allowed to adopt children for entirely reactionary reasons?
I’m sure people on hexbear don’t support those ideas in the slightest and only support the organization insofar as it pertains to Palestine. Hence critical support as opposed to uncritical support.
I’ve never heard a leftist, much less an ML, use “critical support” to justify allying with fascists. Maybe you can enlighten me. Honestly, I swear to God I’m not being snarky now, I’d like to know. As for Hezbollah, they’re still a liberation anti-colonial movement. I don’t think many MLs actually support Assad, most seem to oppose Western fuckery with Syria. I guess if Berletic fighting in Gaza, I might “critically support” him.
The Hexbear news comm has a “no reactionary source” rule. I guess we can’t all be the same, but reactionary sources are problematic in that 1) they send clinks and views to a fascist, and 2) when the fascists says something on the boundary, there’s yet another pointless battle about the truth of said POV. I guess we shouldn’t care what liberals think, but I imagine that posting a reactionary that shares our views on Ukraine makes non MLs think we’ve lost the plot.
We’re not posting THAT. No one in their right mind would post shit like this, except maybe in “Shit Reactionaries Say”.
As for this whole argument… It is incredibly dogmatic (as in “lib purity/moralism”) and unhelpful. I do not give a damn about what this guy’s chud takes on vaccines are, we’re not posting his videos to promote his channel. I for once care about primarily two things: 1) “what effect does a specific article or piece of work have on the people, what sort of message is it trying to propagate?” and 2) “Is it in any way useful for the revolutionary cause?”
If answers to both of these questions satisfy me, I’m probably going to be fine with it. And I don’t think MLs should be engaging in this sort of ultra-left purity shit. Information is information, even if a chud presented it. It’s everybody’s job to critically assess it.
I gotta have this exact same argument when The New Atlas states that some reactionary military government is good actually, and people on Hexbear and Lemmygrad are like “oh no the Myanmar junta is anti-American, that’s why we should support them in their bloody civil war”.
You ignored my comment on the global warming and vaccine thing. I honestly don’t find this to be a productive convo if you’re just going to completely ignore everything I’m saying and go to insults of “ultra-left purity shit”.
Then no one is going to post that. We’re only posting that we deem useful. In any case, most people on this instance are capable of dissecting reactionary bullshit. And, you should not take anyone’s word uncritically, even if it’s coming from Marxists - no one knows everything, everyone can make mistakes.
Interesting. Multiple people explained it succinctly, but it is us ignoring you and not the other way around. At the very least address the counterpoints presented to you.
I swear to go, it happens all the time.
“and go right to insults”. Finish the sentence. “Lib purity” is not being against a guy who’s hard right? Like I can get there’s a case for disagreement, but come on.
No. “Lib purity” is dismissing all information from a source you disagree with, even if some information coming from them is factual and truthful, specifically because they’re a chud. I stress again - we are against the guy, overall. But just because HE said something does not make that something untruthful. We CAN engage with the information critically. We don’t live in a world where every source is a ML and we can just consume information without fear of it being compromised. It is no reason to not post good bits. And by the way, I watched the video - there is nothing reactionary in it. If there was - I’m sure there would have been a disclaimer.
Imagine canning Lenin because he supposedly had some socially conservative takes.
We did not ignore completely what you were saying, we addressed your issue with not posting Berletic’s takes on Ukraine and explained why this sort of thing is dogmatic.
Isn’t critical support exactly for this purpose? People support Hezbollah for their stance on the colonization and genocide of Palestine, but not necessarily all of their other takes on lgbt people. Or what about Assad and his beliefs that gay couple shouldn’t be allowed to adopt children for entirely reactionary reasons?
I’m sure people on hexbear don’t support those ideas in the slightest and only support the organization insofar as it pertains to Palestine. Hence critical support as opposed to uncritical support.
I’ve never heard a leftist, much less an ML, use “critical support” to justify allying with fascists. Maybe you can enlighten me. Honestly, I swear to God I’m not being snarky now, I’d like to know. As for Hezbollah, they’re still a liberation anti-colonial movement. I don’t think many MLs actually support Assad, most seem to oppose Western fuckery with Syria. I guess if Berletic fighting in Gaza, I might “critically support” him.
The Hexbear news comm has a “no reactionary source” rule. I guess we can’t all be the same, but reactionary sources are problematic in that 1) they send clinks and views to a fascist, and 2) when the fascists says something on the boundary, there’s yet another pointless battle about the truth of said POV. I guess we shouldn’t care what liberals think, but I imagine that posting a reactionary that shares our views on Ukraine makes non MLs think we’ve lost the plot.