“…The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusets: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen yard in order. I hope in god this article will be rectified before the new constitution is accepted.”
Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, Nov 13, 1787
I also have this weird feeling that there was some assumption of gentleman’s decorum back then even with those one disagreed with.
I appreciate his “forgive them, educate them, and move on” ideal. As if surely, once they’ve learned how things are, they will calm down! I wish it were that way.
But I think he’d be (im/de)pressed with just how low the bar has fallen when it comes to civil human behavior, general education esp. in civic affairs, and practical reasoning.
There is no line too far anymore. There is no punishment for violating foundational social contracts or civil discourse.
One half is constantly flabbergasted that the other half keeps flagrantly violating the power of their office and saying “So what? I’m winning.”
We’re just so far past the point of reason now.
Edit: Also remember, Jefferson wrote this long before the Civil War. I believe his point in “forgive them and move on” was optimistically more in the interest of preserving the young Republic at all costs, rather than letting it crumble from the inside with internal feuds. (As is the fate of many rebellions)
Considering we had things like fist fight, a near fatal beating with a cane, etc on the floor of congress back then, I don’t think much of their old timey decorum
I don’t think your assumption is accurate. They famously started shooting at a government because they taxed them a little more than they wanted to be taxed (to pay for a war we started).
They did a great job at that. It has lasted 248 years. But they also gave us a framework for updating our constitution and government, and that has been sorely neglected for a long time. The founders were wise enough to recognize that the system would need to change as times changed. What they didn’t seem to anticipate is the insane tribalism created by technologies that weren’t even a dream at the time, and how that tribalism would grind our government to a halt.
The founders thought they inoculated us against tyranny in 1776.
They also had slaves. A lot of slaves. Maybe we shouldn’t accept their fight against tyranny at face value.
Also, if they’re so smart, then why are they dead?
They did, but you gotta get your booster shots every now and then.
“…The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusets: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen yard in order. I hope in god this article will be rectified before the new constitution is accepted.”
Good goddamn, Jefferson was wrong again. I bet this is what a lot of judges are thinking about when looking at J6 cases.
I also have this weird feeling that there was some assumption of gentleman’s decorum back then even with those one disagreed with.
I appreciate his “forgive them, educate them, and move on” ideal. As if surely, once they’ve learned how things are, they will calm down! I wish it were that way.
But I think he’d be (im/de)pressed with just how low the bar has fallen when it comes to civil human behavior, general education esp. in civic affairs, and practical reasoning. There is no line too far anymore. There is no punishment for violating foundational social contracts or civil discourse.
One half is constantly flabbergasted that the other half keeps flagrantly violating the power of their office and saying “So what? I’m winning.”
We’re just so far past the point of reason now.
Edit: Also remember, Jefferson wrote this long before the Civil War. I believe his point in “forgive them and move on” was optimistically more in the interest of preserving the young Republic at all costs, rather than letting it crumble from the inside with internal feuds. (As is the fate of many rebellions)
Considering we had things like fist fight, a near fatal beating with a cane, etc on the floor of congress back then, I don’t think much of their old timey decorum
I don’t think your assumption is accurate. They famously started shooting at a government because they taxed them a little more than they wanted to be taxed (to pay for a war we started).
They did a great job at that. It has lasted 248 years. But they also gave us a framework for updating our constitution and government, and that has been sorely neglected for a long time. The founders were wise enough to recognize that the system would need to change as times changed. What they didn’t seem to anticipate is the insane tribalism created by technologies that weren’t even a dream at the time, and how that tribalism would grind our government to a halt.