So the Democrats were doing the right thing by continuing to unapologetically support a fascist foreign leader in his continued Genocide?
Regardless of who anyone voted for, they voted to support a genocide, and it’s 100% on the Democrats to even put people in that position to begin with. “You can’t vote Trump, he’s a fascist! He’ll support a genocide!”
Voters: Like… You are?
Dems: …well that’s different!!!
This is not about finding the one person or group who bears sole responsibility and pointing the finger at them to excuse everyone else. This is about what each person has within their control, and whether they did the right thing.
There is no “right” thing because every single person will define it differently. To me, the right thing is supporting the working class and not supporting a fascist genocide. To you, “right” is “stop fascism, no matter what.” To another commenter, “right” might be choosing to abstain from voting because none of the candidates represent the direction or policies you feel are most important.
To Republicans, the “right” thing is to establish a christofascist autocracy. Or it’s to stop the dirty Dems. Or it’s to stop abortion.
So “right” is irrelevant, the “right” thing to do was for the Democrats to actually listen to the American people and the policies that are popular to them, and then rally that energy into a larger voter turnout. That was the only right thing to do, especially when a loss will result in fascism.
You don’t get to lecture the voters about not understanding the “right” thing to do when the leaders of the political party that’s supposed to be the last bastion against fascism honestly seemed to phone the whole fucking thing in. And this stems from the entitlement that I’ve been ranting about the DNC having for years. You aren’t entitled to anyone’s vote, regardless of “right v wrong” as far as candidates are concerned.
The Dems needed to earn their votes, and they decided a centrist campaign based on the promise that nothing will be substantially different from the last Dem who Americans feel (whether they’re right or not is irrelevant) hasn’t improved their lives substantially. Americans want change, and the Dems could do nothing during “tHe MoSt ImPoRtAnT eLeCtIoN oF oUr LiFeTiMeS” than promise the American people 4 more years of the status quo.
Dem Leaders: Wow, we had record voter turnout in 2020 running Biden on policies that Bernie had initially run on, progressive policies that seemed popular among the base! So what should our strategy be to stop fascism in 2024?
Dem Consultants: Eh, just rerun the 2016 playbook and send out 30 texts a day begging for money. We only raised over a billion dollars, we don’t need to spend that on studies and polls to find out what policies would get us voters, nah. It’s Trump, he’s a fascist moron that got trounced in 2020, we got this in the bag.
How come it’s everyone’s responsibility not to vote for genocide, but you’re allowed to abstain for genocide as much as you want if you can point the finger at a politician? Like, it’s 100% Kamala’s fault you let Trump win and you therefore have zero culpability, but the voters who tried to prevent that are personally to blame for Joe Biden’s failures.
How come it’s everyone’s responsibility not to vote for genocide
Because it’s genocide… Do you think the victims care if the person sending Netanyahu his bombs has a D or R next to their name?
but you’re allowed to abstain for genocide as much as you want if you can point the finger at a politician?
Yeah, that’s how the right to vote works. Can you point to the voters who are holding a gun to Biden’s head and forcing him to support a fascist leader and his genocide?
Can you point to the voters who held a gun to Kamala’s head and forced her to adopt the same policy on Israel that Biden’s administration has adhered to? Despite it being incredibly unpopular among his party’s voting base?
Like, it’s 100% Kamala’s fault you let Trump win and you therefore have zero culpability,
I voted for Harris, and my state went to Harris, so no, I did not “let Trump win.”
But yeah dude, it’s 100% Harris’ fault. You don’t get to support a genocide and then try to play morally superior to your fascist opponent who supports the same genocide…
And you don’t get to complain that it’s the voter’s fault that they wouldn’t support a candidate who wouldn’t denounce genocide, or even commit to just not supporting it like the admin she’s part of is.
Would y’all be defending the genocide and Harris/Biden’s unconditional support of it if it resulted in a draft for Americans, but not necessarily yourself? Or better yet, if you were a Palestinian in Palestine, would you be begging America to vote for Harris because of LGBTQ+ rights, or the economy’s soft landing? Or would you be asking them why they won’t elect someone who won’t support a genocide?
but the voters who tried to prevent that are personally to blame for Joe Biden’s failures.
I’m not blaming voters, period. They were given the choice between Diet Fascism or Fascism, and I don’t blame anyone for sitting that out. I fully acknowledged that regardless of my choice, I was supporting a genocide, and those lives are now at my feet.
But to act like voters have any fault in this is laughable. The DNC laid down with dogs and were shocked when they got up covered in fleas. They gave Republicans numerous spots to speak at their convention, but none to the Palestinian Democrats that the Uncommitted Movement requested be allowed to speak.
What do you call a table of 10 people sitting down with a Nazi?
You should probably write 11 more paragraphs on how everyone who voted against genocide is a nazi, just in case somebody didn’t read your first two screenfuls of text
You should probably write 11 more paragraphs on how everyone who voted against genocide is a nazi, just in case somebody didn’t read your first two screenfuls of text
So just not going to try to address any of what I had to say with your own thoughts, opinions, or evidence? Just going to snidely make a comment about how I write as if your brevity somehow makes you right?
There’s that elitist, liberal entitlement the average American loves to see from the DNC. 👍 Keep winning over voters, drag, you’re doing God’s work.
I haven’t seen you explain to me how supporting Israel’s genocide unconditionally doesn’t make Harris and Biden fascist, unless I missed it scrolling by my two “screenfuls” of text. 🙄
Harris and Biden are fascist. Your 11 paragraphs are attacking beliefs drag does not hold. Drag did not defend those beliefs, because drag agrees with your criticisms of them. It would be nice if your criticisms lead to a belief in protecting Palestine, but alas. You instead decide to spend all this time attacking Harris voters for not being as sour about their decision as you are. You think they, and you, have something to be guilty for. There is no guilt in choosing the least harm. There is guilt in choosing not to choose. There is guilt in neglecting one’s responsibilities in favour of the comfort of inaction.
No, I understand your point, and you’re completely missing mine.
You’re saying people are obligated to choose diet fascism or fascism, and those who chose are absolved of guilt while those who abstained aren’t. I’m saying they’re not, and to blame them for anything is ridiculous, the blame is on the Democrats.
And what would their action have sparked even had they voted? The US just walked back their threats regarding further aid to Israel. According to third party organizations like the UN, Israel hasn’t improved aid access in Gaza, but the US just announced they’ll be sending more weapons to Israel anyway.
So where’s the least harm, Netanyahu got what he wanted regardless of the clearly toothless threat (and literal virtue signaling to their base to win votes) from the Democrats? The genocide continues, but you’re going to tell yourself your hands are clean because you chose the least harm?
We support a genocide, drag, we have no moral superiority over those who didn’t support it. Blame Harris and the Dems, where the blame lies, and be angry you were put in this position to begin with. The Democrats are supposed to be better than this, and have no excuse not to have been. And they lost because of it, hold them accountable, not non-voters who need to be won over, not condescended to and scolded.
You’re saying people are obligated to choose diet fascism or fascism, and those who chose are absolved of guilt while those who abstained aren’t
Fascism or liberalism, but you’ve got the spirit. We are thrust into this world with conscience and reason, and thus we are burdened with choice. You cannot crawl back into Eden and pretend you do not know of good and evil. You are imbued innately with choice and freedom, and thus responsibility. There is not an option in which you are not responsible for the consequences of your actions.
Do you understand this much of drag’s argument? The assertion that choice is inevitable? Because while your comment started out good, it immediately changed the subject into agreeing with drag about the complacency of the Democrats and the evil of Netanyahu’s regime. If you want to agree with drag all day and get nowhere on the issues we actually have reason to discuss, then continue talking about simple material things we both understand.
But if you want to show that you understand the reason drag holds drag’s opinions, then comment on the actual substance of our disagreement, the nature of choice. Can we crawl back to Eden and forsake our ability to choose? Are we responsible as passive bystanders?
Harris/Biden: show unconditional support to fascist leader of Israel during his genocide of Palestinians.
You: That’s not fascism, that’s liberalism.
Sure.
Voters aren’t obligated to vote, candidates are supposed to earn votes by showing their ideas and policies are worth supporting.
So where’s the benefit in supporting a genocide?
Keep letting them march us right and condescending to a base of voters who are telling you what they want/expect because you have some imagined notion of moral superiority you think you have for supporting the lesser evil. Keep ignoring everything I’m telling you and how this looks to voters like myself, and acting like no, no, you know best.
So the Democrats were doing the right thing by continuing to unapologetically support a fascist foreign leader in his continued Genocide?
Regardless of who anyone voted for, they voted to support a genocide, and it’s 100% on the Democrats to even put people in that position to begin with. “You can’t vote Trump, he’s a fascist! He’ll support a genocide!”
Voters: Like… You are?
Dems: …well that’s different!!!
There is no “right” thing because every single person will define it differently. To me, the right thing is supporting the working class and not supporting a fascist genocide. To you, “right” is “stop fascism, no matter what.” To another commenter, “right” might be choosing to abstain from voting because none of the candidates represent the direction or policies you feel are most important.
To Republicans, the “right” thing is to establish a christofascist autocracy. Or it’s to stop the dirty Dems. Or it’s to stop abortion.
So “right” is irrelevant, the “right” thing to do was for the Democrats to actually listen to the American people and the policies that are popular to them, and then rally that energy into a larger voter turnout. That was the only right thing to do, especially when a loss will result in fascism.
You don’t get to lecture the voters about not understanding the “right” thing to do when the leaders of the political party that’s supposed to be the last bastion against fascism honestly seemed to phone the whole fucking thing in. And this stems from the entitlement that I’ve been ranting about the DNC having for years. You aren’t entitled to anyone’s vote, regardless of “right v wrong” as far as candidates are concerned.
The Dems needed to earn their votes, and they decided a centrist campaign based on the promise that nothing will be substantially different from the last Dem who Americans feel (whether they’re right or not is irrelevant) hasn’t improved their lives substantially. Americans want change, and the Dems could do nothing during “tHe MoSt ImPoRtAnT eLeCtIoN oF oUr LiFeTiMeS” than promise the American people 4 more years of the status quo.
Dem Leaders: Wow, we had record voter turnout in 2020 running Biden on policies that Bernie had initially run on, progressive policies that seemed popular among the base! So what should our strategy be to stop fascism in 2024?
Dem Consultants: Eh, just rerun the 2016 playbook and send out 30 texts a day begging for money. We only raised over a billion dollars, we don’t need to spend that on studies and polls to find out what policies would get us voters, nah. It’s Trump, he’s a fascist moron that got trounced in 2020, we got this in the bag.
How come it’s everyone’s responsibility not to vote for genocide, but you’re allowed to abstain for genocide as much as you want if you can point the finger at a politician? Like, it’s 100% Kamala’s fault you let Trump win and you therefore have zero culpability, but the voters who tried to prevent that are personally to blame for Joe Biden’s failures.
Because it’s genocide… Do you think the victims care if the person sending Netanyahu his bombs has a D or R next to their name?
Yeah, that’s how the right to vote works. Can you point to the voters who are holding a gun to Biden’s head and forcing him to support a fascist leader and his genocide?
Can you point to the voters who held a gun to Kamala’s head and forced her to adopt the same policy on Israel that Biden’s administration has adhered to? Despite it being incredibly unpopular among his party’s voting base?
I voted for Harris, and my state went to Harris, so no, I did not “let Trump win.”
But yeah dude, it’s 100% Harris’ fault. You don’t get to support a genocide and then try to play morally superior to your fascist opponent who supports the same genocide…
And you don’t get to complain that it’s the voter’s fault that they wouldn’t support a candidate who wouldn’t denounce genocide, or even commit to just not supporting it like the admin she’s part of is.
Would y’all be defending the genocide and Harris/Biden’s unconditional support of it if it resulted in a draft for Americans, but not necessarily yourself? Or better yet, if you were a Palestinian in Palestine, would you be begging America to vote for Harris because of LGBTQ+ rights, or the economy’s soft landing? Or would you be asking them why they won’t elect someone who won’t support a genocide?
I’m not blaming voters, period. They were given the choice between Diet Fascism or Fascism, and I don’t blame anyone for sitting that out. I fully acknowledged that regardless of my choice, I was supporting a genocide, and those lives are now at my feet.
But to act like voters have any fault in this is laughable. The DNC laid down with dogs and were shocked when they got up covered in fleas. They gave Republicans numerous spots to speak at their convention, but none to the Palestinian Democrats that the Uncommitted Movement requested be allowed to speak.
What do you call a table of 10 people sitting down with a Nazi?
11 Nazis.
You should probably write 11 more paragraphs on how everyone who voted against genocide is a nazi, just in case somebody didn’t read your first two screenfuls of text
So just not going to try to address any of what I had to say with your own thoughts, opinions, or evidence? Just going to snidely make a comment about how I write as if your brevity somehow makes you right?
There’s that elitist, liberal entitlement the average American loves to see from the DNC. 👍 Keep winning over voters, drag, you’re doing God’s work.
I haven’t seen you explain to me how supporting Israel’s genocide unconditionally doesn’t make Harris and Biden fascist, unless I missed it scrolling by my two “screenfuls” of text. 🙄
Harris and Biden are fascist. Your 11 paragraphs are attacking beliefs drag does not hold. Drag did not defend those beliefs, because drag agrees with your criticisms of them. It would be nice if your criticisms lead to a belief in protecting Palestine, but alas. You instead decide to spend all this time attacking Harris voters for not being as sour about their decision as you are. You think they, and you, have something to be guilty for. There is no guilt in choosing the least harm. There is guilt in choosing not to choose. There is guilt in neglecting one’s responsibilities in favour of the comfort of inaction.
No, I understand your point, and you’re completely missing mine.
You’re saying people are obligated to choose diet fascism or fascism, and those who chose are absolved of guilt while those who abstained aren’t. I’m saying they’re not, and to blame them for anything is ridiculous, the blame is on the Democrats.
And what would their action have sparked even had they voted? The US just walked back their threats regarding further aid to Israel. According to third party organizations like the UN, Israel hasn’t improved aid access in Gaza, but the US just announced they’ll be sending more weapons to Israel anyway.
So where’s the least harm, Netanyahu got what he wanted regardless of the clearly toothless threat (and literal virtue signaling to their base to win votes) from the Democrats? The genocide continues, but you’re going to tell yourself your hands are clean because you chose the least harm?
We support a genocide, drag, we have no moral superiority over those who didn’t support it. Blame Harris and the Dems, where the blame lies, and be angry you were put in this position to begin with. The Democrats are supposed to be better than this, and have no excuse not to have been. And they lost because of it, hold them accountable, not non-voters who need to be won over, not condescended to and scolded.
Fascism or liberalism, but you’ve got the spirit. We are thrust into this world with conscience and reason, and thus we are burdened with choice. You cannot crawl back into Eden and pretend you do not know of good and evil. You are imbued innately with choice and freedom, and thus responsibility. There is not an option in which you are not responsible for the consequences of your actions.
Do you understand this much of drag’s argument? The assertion that choice is inevitable? Because while your comment started out good, it immediately changed the subject into agreeing with drag about the complacency of the Democrats and the evil of Netanyahu’s regime. If you want to agree with drag all day and get nowhere on the issues we actually have reason to discuss, then continue talking about simple material things we both understand.
But if you want to show that you understand the reason drag holds drag’s opinions, then comment on the actual substance of our disagreement, the nature of choice. Can we crawl back to Eden and forsake our ability to choose? Are we responsible as passive bystanders?
Yeah, we’re done.
Harris/Biden: show unconditional support to fascist leader of Israel during his genocide of Palestinians.
You: That’s not fascism, that’s liberalism.
Sure.
Voters aren’t obligated to vote, candidates are supposed to earn votes by showing their ideas and policies are worth supporting.
So where’s the benefit in supporting a genocide?
Keep letting them march us right and condescending to a base of voters who are telling you what they want/expect because you have some imagined notion of moral superiority you think you have for supporting the lesser evil. Keep ignoring everything I’m telling you and how this looks to voters like myself, and acting like no, no, you know best.