• Pyro@lemmy.worldEnglish
      91·
      9 months ago

      So if your country was being invaded you’d just lie down and take it? Perhaps even say thank you? You’re naive to think that talking will magically solve things when you’re against an enemy who clearly doesn’t have the same moral standards as you. They’re attempting to take what they want with force, they’ve already demonstrated that they don’t care for niceties like negotiation.

      Imagine trying to talk it out with a mugger. They don’t care what you want to talk about. They want your money.

      Every downvote is a vote for death, hatred, and suffering of innocents

      This makes you sound like those moronic Facebook posts that say things like “1 like = 1 prayer, ignore = you hate puppies”. It’s not a good look.

        • Pyro@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3·
          9 months ago

          Would I rather be alive and in a position to negotiate my freedom than dead?

          I already gave you the mugger analogy, so one of three things is happening.

          1. You didn’t read what I said.
          2. You don’t understand what I said.
          3. You are purposefully ignoring what I said.

          In any of these cases, it appears you are not debating in good faith. As such, I will no longer engage. Goodbye.

        • Shalakushka@kbin.social
          31·
          9 months ago

          Please go to Ukraine and test this routine on Russian soldiers, it will go really well for you, like that ad of Kendall Jenner solving racism with a Pepsi

    • wombatula@lemm.eeEnglish
      82·
      9 months ago

      Oh most enlightened one, ye who stands upon the highest of moral ground, please share with us your illuminated opinion of how the Ukraine should have responded? Or for that matter, any enemy who wishes to take your land and kill your people.

      Clearly you are the most learned among us, and have solved the puzzle of how to overcome a violent enemy without resorting to violence, so please I beg of you oh sage one to teach us your great wisdom so that we may be as ethically correct as you.

      EDIT

      Aww I missed their rage response, I am guessing they had no better response than “let the violent party take whatever they want”? Yeah cause that’s a super great plan, and definitely doesn’t incentivize more violence.

        • Gabu@lemmy.world
          61·
          9 months ago

          Here, let me bring some light into your understanding of the matter.

          Imagine, and I want you to really visualize this, a large man has a visible gun on his belt. He demands that you strip nude and give him everything you have. There is no path you can run towards, he’s blocking the only exit and, again, has a gun. It just so happens that you also have a gun, and unlike his, yours is already drawn. What do you do?

        • Shalakushka@kbin.social
          42·
          9 months ago

          I advocate the defense of people and cities. You advocate their surrender. You would trade anything for peace, especially justice. You would rather have a negative peace than accept that the world is not as simple as you would like it to be, and there are some enemies who are simply not interested in negotiation. You are what we call a “useful idiot.”

            • PugJesus@kbin.social
              3·
              9 months ago

              Where is the justice for the dead? Where? Where the fuck is the justice for the innocents who have had their lives turned upside down? The ones who would still be alive if aggression had not been the solution?

              Those are some very good questions to ask the aggressor, Russia.

            • Shalakushka@kbin.social
              2·
              9 months ago

              What justice is there in rolling over and saying, “no, we don’t have a right to self-determination in any way, please take anything you want, Russia!” If push came to shove you would be a collaborator, and aider and abetter of war crimes to save your own skin, and that cognitive dissonance makes you so uncomfortable that you put on this humanitarian act in order to maintain a moral high ground that does not exist. It is not virtuous to allow others to kill you, dominate you, and steal from you. It is monstrous to imply that Russia’s right to delusions of empire trump Ukraine’s right to determine their country’s affairs, and even more monstrous to use the death of innocents as a shield for your craven delusions that everything would be fine if people just gave the naked aggressors everything they want.

    • boonhet@lemm.ee
      2·
      9 months ago

      So the solution is that the one side that already has a bunch of guns, gets to kill as many people on the other side, and we must not help the other side defend themselves?

      Always give the aggressor everything they want and let them kill as many civilians as they need to.

      Sure.

      temporarily get some of what they want while things are worked out

      Some of what they want = to own all of Ukraine, and for Ukrainians to not exist as a culture, let alone a nation.

      There’s no temporary about it. There’s no “some of what they want” about it. Negotiations have been tried time and time again. Ceasefires have been tried, but guess what, Russia just bombarded the civilian evacuation corridors when they were negotiated because the goal is to kill as many Ukrainians as possible.

      Putin is not rational, this is an ego war. I take it you were never bullied in school. You might not know what it’s like when someone’s main goal in life is to make yours hell. You can just lay on the ground and play dead, that won’t stop them from kicking you. There’s no talking your way out of it unless you yourself are at least as strong as the bully. This is what Russia is. A schoolyard bully. Any type of negotiated peace short of total capitulation is going to be nothing more than a way to catch Ukraine with its’ pants down and kill more Ukrainians and grab more territory. The only way Russia will stop killing innocent people is if they either run out of resources, or Putin himself gets deposed.