Man, just thinking of the mental anguish that Obi-Wan went through in his adult life. He suffered just as much as Anakin, if not more - yet he never fell from his path. After seeing his love interest murdered by the former Sith - who killed his mentor in front of him - he thought he killed, he went a literal decade in exile thinking he killed his best friend, who was complicit in the deaths of thousands of their fellow Jedi and friends, over something that could have been avoided if they didn’t inadvertently play into Palpatine’s umbrella of schemes nearly every time.
Then he found out Anakin was still alive, and actually responsible for all of the behind-the-scenes action of the Empire.
Edit: to give credit to Anakin, he was a teenager when he began being fully groomed by Palpatine. Given that Palpatine was one of the strongest force users in all of known galactic history, I think Anakin would have been an extreme Grey Jedi at worst if he wasn’t manipulated by the Dark Lord of the Sith
You say he never fell from the path but I’d argue heavily against that. I mean he didn’t prior to Kenobi but after that? I typically stand by the stance that the only Jedi in the Original Trilogy is Luke and he doesn’t even count until RotJ.
Obi-Wan and Yoda actively lied to Luke about who his father was. They trained him to kill Darth Vader, his father, in what feels like an act of vengeance for how Vader betrayed them. Now I get it, they do have a justification in saying go after Vader but they were insistent on Vader. Not Palpatine. Sure, Daddy Vader is a problem but he’s not the sole problem. Getting rid of him would hurt the Empire but with Palpatine and everyone else hanging around it is still going to be standing very strong. They also can’t claim ignorance of Palpatine considering Yoda did his ‘Kermit on Ketamine’ sequence at the Senate against The Senate. I mean, for fucks sake, Yoda starts trying to die faster the second that Luke starts asking questions. Obi-Wan, a fucking ghost at this point, is still lying to the poor kid and trying to justify his behavior.
Now, like I said, I don’t blame either of them. The loss that both Yoda and Obi-Wan suffered was utterly immeasurable but they were not exactly holding strictly to Jedi ideals and teachings at that point. Flowing through them the hate was.
Good points, but an important thing to consider is the Jedi - Obi-Wan and Yoda included, Yoda especially - were so caught up in their own hubris that they allowed all these events to transpire in their faces. The rise of the Empire didn’t cause this to change, as evidenced by your points that Yoda and Obi-Wan lied to Luke until they realized they couldn’t anymore. Plus, they did the same to Anakin and Ahsoka in different situations during the Clone Wars - while they all were still part of the Jedi Order. So I’d say the surviving Jedi barely changed in that regard. But my point was, Obi-Wan never fell to the dark side as Anakin did - despite having gone through worse for longer.
Personally, I hope future Jedi are more pragmatic / Grey in their approaches, similar to Qui-Gon or Dooku before his fall. I think if more Jedi had been like that, Palpatine would not have been able to be as opportunistic as he was. Btw, thanks for engaging in this lol I’m a sucker for it all
Oh I completely agree with all of your points. I just also stand by the fact that they did stray. Maybe for the better, maybe for the worst, but they’re definitely not upholding the tenants of the Jedi Order in the way that they used to. I think it isn’t until Luke faces Vader and holds back from the darkside that both Yoda and Obi-Wan sort of come to have an inner realization of how they changed. That’s totally headcanon for me but I dunno. I like the idea that they were corrupted and didn’t realize it until the ‘Next Generation’ helped them realize it. I’m a sucker for that shit just like you’re a sucker for the conversation.
For the record, I’m always down to do this. If you ever wanna have a chat about Star Wars, hit me up! I may be more well versed in Star Trek but that’s not saying much. I’m still steeped in a fuckload of Star Wars as well.
Duchess Satine, Ruler of Mandalore. She appears intermittently during the Clone Wars show. Anakin and Obi-Wan kinda had a thing for independent women in power lol
Man, just thinking of the mental anguish that Obi-Wan went through in his adult life. He suffered just as much as Anakin, if not more - yet he never fell from his path. After seeing his love interest murdered by the former Sith - who killed his mentor in front of him - he thought he killed, he went a literal decade in exile thinking he killed his best friend, who was complicit in the deaths of thousands of their fellow Jedi and friends, over something that could have been avoided if they didn’t inadvertently play into Palpatine’s umbrella of schemes nearly every time.
Then he found out Anakin was still alive, and actually responsible for all of the behind-the-scenes action of the Empire.
Edit: to give credit to Anakin, he was a teenager when he began being fully groomed by Palpatine. Given that Palpatine was one of the strongest force users in all of known galactic history, I think Anakin would have been an extreme Grey Jedi at worst if he wasn’t manipulated by the Dark Lord of the Sith
You say he never fell from the path but I’d argue heavily against that. I mean he didn’t prior to Kenobi but after that? I typically stand by the stance that the only Jedi in the Original Trilogy is Luke and he doesn’t even count until RotJ.
Obi-Wan and Yoda actively lied to Luke about who his father was. They trained him to kill Darth Vader, his father, in what feels like an act of vengeance for how Vader betrayed them. Now I get it, they do have a justification in saying go after Vader but they were insistent on Vader. Not Palpatine. Sure, Daddy Vader is a problem but he’s not the sole problem. Getting rid of him would hurt the Empire but with Palpatine and everyone else hanging around it is still going to be standing very strong. They also can’t claim ignorance of Palpatine considering Yoda did his ‘Kermit on Ketamine’ sequence at the Senate against The Senate. I mean, for fucks sake, Yoda starts trying to die faster the second that Luke starts asking questions. Obi-Wan, a fucking ghost at this point, is still lying to the poor kid and trying to justify his behavior.
Now, like I said, I don’t blame either of them. The loss that both Yoda and Obi-Wan suffered was utterly immeasurable but they were not exactly holding strictly to Jedi ideals and teachings at that point. Flowing through them the hate was.
Good points, but an important thing to consider is the Jedi - Obi-Wan and Yoda included, Yoda especially - were so caught up in their own hubris that they allowed all these events to transpire in their faces. The rise of the Empire didn’t cause this to change, as evidenced by your points that Yoda and Obi-Wan lied to Luke until they realized they couldn’t anymore. Plus, they did the same to Anakin and Ahsoka in different situations during the Clone Wars - while they all were still part of the Jedi Order. So I’d say the surviving Jedi barely changed in that regard. But my point was, Obi-Wan never fell to the dark side as Anakin did - despite having gone through worse for longer.
Personally, I hope future Jedi are more pragmatic / Grey in their approaches, similar to Qui-Gon or Dooku before his fall. I think if more Jedi had been like that, Palpatine would not have been able to be as opportunistic as he was. Btw, thanks for engaging in this lol I’m a sucker for it all
Oh I completely agree with all of your points. I just also stand by the fact that they did stray. Maybe for the better, maybe for the worst, but they’re definitely not upholding the tenants of the Jedi Order in the way that they used to. I think it isn’t until Luke faces Vader and holds back from the darkside that both Yoda and Obi-Wan sort of come to have an inner realization of how they changed. That’s totally headcanon for me but I dunno. I like the idea that they were corrupted and didn’t realize it until the ‘Next Generation’ helped them realize it. I’m a sucker for that shit just like you’re a sucker for the conversation.
For the record, I’m always down to do this. If you ever wanna have a chat about Star Wars, hit me up! I may be more well versed in Star Trek but that’s not saying much. I’m still steeped in a fuckload of Star Wars as well.
After that much ketamine do you think Kermit could remember the fight?
Anakin and Maul are both reminders to double-tap any Sith you’re dueling, otherwise you’re gonna torture yourself for no reason.
*Darth Sion enters the chat*
Obi-Wan had a love interest?
Duchess Satine, Ruler of Mandalore. She appears intermittently during the Clone Wars show. Anakin and Obi-Wan kinda had a thing for independent women in power lol
Uh huh uh huh good points good points,
Gray Jedi
Them’s fightin’ words.