What’s your point? Because Hamas are an extremist dictatorship it’s okay to deprive the civilian population of food and water, and bomb indiscriminately?
Half the population are children. Do they also deserve to suffer?
Not at all! my point was that people seem to see this as a “State of Israel” vs “the people of Palestine and Hamas” issue, when in reality we all need to call out Hamas for what they are.
I don’t think I’ve seen a single comment on Lemmy that equates Hamas with Palestine, or is even pro-Hamas. I also haven’t seen any news or stats that indicate the average Israeli disagrees with the Israeli government’s treatment of Palestinian civilians… Quite the opposite, in fact. I’ve never seen any indication that anything but a small minority of Israeli’s and jews agree that Palestinian’s have suffered any injustice.
I fully expect the average Palestinian to hate Israel, but I can’t blame them because they’re an uneducated, impoverished, 3rd world people who’ve been disregarded and shat on by the entire developed world for 75+ years. The land they, or their direct ancestors, were born on was stolen from them by colonial powers, and handed to foreigners whose ancestors hadn’t lived there for millennia.
So my question for you is, shouldn’t the highly educated, wealthy, developed, democracy be held to a significantly higher standard than the uneducated, impoverished, non-state, dictatorship, whose population is 50% children? In what world are these populations on a remotely comparable playing field?
I don’t think I’ve seen a single comment on Lemmy that equates Hamas with Palestine, or is even pro-Hamas.
I don’t disagree with the rest of what you’ve said, but if you haven’t seen these comments it’s solely because your instance has defederated from lemmygrad, hexbear, and others that have openly supported the violence against Israeli civilians. There is no shortage of these comments on Lemmy.
I don’t think I’ve seen a single comment on Lemmy that equates Hamas with Palestine
Then you’re turning a blind eye or somehow missing it, this place is overrun with calls to violence against Israel and its people. This place is also overrun with support for Hamas. Look at how heavily downvoted my comments (and the parent comments merely stating that Hamas are in the wrong) are. I’m not supporting the Israeli government, I’m not going “woo, IDF, let’s go!”. I’m not even saying “Israel has every right to attack”.
I support Palestine in that I want Palestinian people to have their own internationally recognized state. I want them to be allowed to be self-sufficient, to not be blockaded, to not be encroached upon. I also think that Israeli people deserve to exist in their own state. Both states deserve to exist without constant threat of war, sanction, or terrorism. If we can’t agree to those basic statements – and I’ve seen comments here that will disagree with them, especially Israel’s legitimacy via the mandate of Palestine – then I don’t know what else to say.
shouldn’t the highly educated, wealthy, developed, democracy be held to a significantly higher standard?
Yes, absolutely. The only thing I’ve said (or implied, maybe I needed to spell it out) is that Hamas is a terrorist organization that has stolen from the very people it was supposed to protect. It has deprived them of life and liberty, it has prevented fair elections for nearly two decades purely to maintain its own grasp on power. There’s no need for whataboutism, Israel is also depriving them of the same I just accused Hamas of doing. That doesn’t make Hamas right. In an alternate timeline there would have been a Palestine run by elected officials who respect the election process, instead of a terrorist organization, and those officials would better represent the wants and needs of the people. And they would not have orchestrated a massacre on civilians and tourists.
There was a bit of a coup and intervention, and then Palestine was effectively fractured with two defacto governments. As far as I can tell from the internet, Hamas runs as a religious dictatorship since 2007.
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What’s your point? Because Hamas are an extremist dictatorship it’s okay to deprive the civilian population of food and water, and bomb indiscriminately?
Half the population are children. Do they also deserve to suffer?
Not at all! my point was that people seem to see this as a “State of Israel” vs “the people of Palestine and Hamas” issue, when in reality we all need to call out Hamas for what they are.
I don’t think I’ve seen a single comment on Lemmy that equates Hamas with Palestine, or is even pro-Hamas. I also haven’t seen any news or stats that indicate the average Israeli disagrees with the Israeli government’s treatment of Palestinian civilians… Quite the opposite, in fact. I’ve never seen any indication that anything but a small minority of Israeli’s and jews agree that Palestinian’s have suffered any injustice.
I fully expect the average Palestinian to hate Israel, but I can’t blame them because they’re an uneducated, impoverished, 3rd world people who’ve been disregarded and shat on by the entire developed world for 75+ years. The land they, or their direct ancestors, were born on was stolen from them by colonial powers, and handed to foreigners whose ancestors hadn’t lived there for millennia.
So my question for you is, shouldn’t the highly educated, wealthy, developed, democracy be held to a significantly higher standard than the uneducated, impoverished, non-state, dictatorship, whose population is 50% children? In what world are these populations on a remotely comparable playing field?
I don’t disagree with the rest of what you’ve said, but if you haven’t seen these comments it’s solely because your instance has defederated from lemmygrad, hexbear, and others that have openly supported the violence against Israeli civilians. There is no shortage of these comments on Lemmy.
Then you’re turning a blind eye or somehow missing it, this place is overrun with calls to violence against Israel and its people. This place is also overrun with support for Hamas. Look at how heavily downvoted my comments (and the parent comments merely stating that Hamas are in the wrong) are. I’m not supporting the Israeli government, I’m not going “woo, IDF, let’s go!”. I’m not even saying “Israel has every right to attack”.
I support Palestine in that I want Palestinian people to have their own internationally recognized state. I want them to be allowed to be self-sufficient, to not be blockaded, to not be encroached upon. I also think that Israeli people deserve to exist in their own state. Both states deserve to exist without constant threat of war, sanction, or terrorism. If we can’t agree to those basic statements – and I’ve seen comments here that will disagree with them, especially Israel’s legitimacy via the mandate of Palestine – then I don’t know what else to say.
Yes, absolutely. The only thing I’ve said (or implied, maybe I needed to spell it out) is that Hamas is a terrorist organization that has stolen from the very people it was supposed to protect. It has deprived them of life and liberty, it has prevented fair elections for nearly two decades purely to maintain its own grasp on power. There’s no need for whataboutism, Israel is also depriving them of the same I just accused Hamas of doing. That doesn’t make Hamas right. In an alternate timeline there would have been a Palestine run by elected officials who respect the election process, instead of a terrorist organization, and those officials would better represent the wants and needs of the people. And they would not have orchestrated a massacre on civilians and tourists.
2006/2007 - the results didn’t go the way external parties would have liked…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah–Hamas_conflict
There was a bit of a coup and intervention, and then Palestine was effectively fractured with two defacto governments. As far as I can tell from the internet, Hamas runs as a religious dictatorship since 2007.
A pretty good video summary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is6hIUw0KzM