So Podman is an open source container engine like Docker—with "full"1 Docker compatibility. IMO Podman’s main benefit over Docker is security. But how is it more secure? Keep reading…

Docker traditionally runs a daemon as the root user, and you need to mount that daemon’s socket into various containers for them to work as intended (See: Traefik, Portainer, etc.) But if someone compromises such a container and therefore gains access to the Docker socket, it’s game over for your host. That Docker socket is the keys to the root kingdom, so to speak.

Podman doesn’t have a daemon by default, although you can run a very minimal one for Docker compatibility. And perhaps more importantly, Podman can run entirely as a non-root user.2 Non-root means if someone compromises a container and somehow manages to break out of it, they don’t get the keys to the kingdom. They only get access to your non-privileged Unix user. So like the keys to a little room that only contains the thing they already compromised.2.5 Pretty neat.

Okay, now for the annoying parts of Podman. In order to achieve this rootless, daemonless nirvana, you have to give up the convenience of Unix users in your containers being the same as the users on the host. (Or at least the same UIDs.) That’s because Podman typically3 runs as a non-root user, and most containers expect to either run as root or some other specific user.

The "solution"4 is user re-mapping. Meaning that you can configure your non-root user that Podman is running as to map into the container as the root user! Or as UID 1234. Or really any mapping you can imagine. If that makes your head spin, wait until you actually try to configure it. It’s actually not so bad on containers that expect to run as root. You just map your non-root user to the container UID 0 (root)… and Bob’s your uncle. But it can get more complicated and annoying when you have to do more involved UID and GID mappings—and then play the resultant permissions whack-a-mole on the host because your volumes are no longer accessed from a container running as host-root…

Still, it’s a pretty cool feeling the first time you run a “root” container in your completely unprivileged Unix user and everything just works. (After spending hours of swearing and Duck-Ducking to get it to that point.) At least, it was pretty cool for me. If it’s not when you do it, then Podman may not be for you.

The other big annoying thing about Podman is that because there’s no Big Bad Daemon managing everything, there are certain things you give up. Like containers actually starting on boot. You’d think that’d be a fundamental feature of a container engine in 2023, but you’d be wrong. Podman doesn’t do that. Podman adheres to the “Unix philosophy.” Meaning, briefly, if Podman doesn’t feel like doing something, then it doesn’t. And therefore expects you to use systemd for starting your containers on boot. Which is all good and well in theory, until you realize that means Podman wants you to manage your containers entirely with systemd. So… running each container with a systemd service, using those services to stop/start/manage your containers, etc.

Which, if you ask me, is totally bananasland. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to individually manage my containers with systemd. I want to use my good old trusty Docker Compose. The good news is you can use good old trusty Docker Compose with Podman! Just run a compatibility daemon (tiny and minimal and rootless… don’t you worry) to present a Docker-like socket to Compose and boom everything works. Except your containers still don’t actually start on boot. You still need systemd for that. But if you make systemd run Docker Compose, problem solved!

This isn’t the “Podman Way” though, and any real Podman user will be happy to tell you that. The Podman Way is either the aforementioned systemd-running-the-show approach or something called Quadlet or even a Kubernetes compatibility feature. Briefly, about those: Quadlet is “just” a tighter integration between systemd and Podman so that you can declaratively define Podman containers and volumes directly in a sort of systemd service file. (Well, multiple.) It’s like Podman and Docker Compose and systemd and Windows 3.1 INI files all had a bastard love child—and it’s about as pretty as it sounds. IMO, you’d do well to stick with Docker Compose.

The Kubernetes compatibility feature lets you write Kubernetes-style configuration files and run them with Podman to start/manage your containers. It doesn’t actually use a Kubernetes cluster; it lets you pretend you’re running a big boy cluster because your command has the word “kube” in it, but in actuality you’re just running your lowly Podman containers instead. It also has the feel of being a dev toy intended for local development rather than actual production use.5 For instance, there’s no way to apply a change in-place without totally stopping and starting a container with two separate commands. What is this, 2003?

Lastly, there’s Podman Compose. It’s a third-party project (not produced by the Podman devs) that’s intended to support Docker Compose configuration files while working more “natively” with Podman. My brief experience using it (with all due respect to the devs) is that it’s total amateur hour and/or just not ready for prime time. Again, stick with Docker Compose, which works great with Podman.

Anyway, that’s all I’ve got! Use Podman if you want. Don’t use it if you don’t want. I’m not the boss of you. But you said you wanted content on Lemmy, and now you’ve got content on Lemmy. This is all your fault!

1 Where “full” is defined as: Not actually full.

2 Newer versions of Docker also have some rootless capabilities. But they’ve still got that stinky ol’ daemon.

2.5 It’s maybe not quite this simple in practice, because you’ll probably want to run multiple containers under the same Unix account unless you’re really OCD about security and/or have a hatred of the convenience of container networking.

3 You can run Podman as root and have many of the same properties as root Docker, but then what’s the point? One less daemon, I guess?

4 Where “solution” is defined as: Something that solves the problem while creating five new ones.

5 Spoiler: Red Hat’s whole positioning with Podman is like they see it is as a way for buttoned-up corporate devs to run containers locally for development while their “production” is running K8s or whatever. Personally, I don’t care how they position it as long as Podman works well to run my self-hosting shit…

  • Scribbd
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    1 year ago

    I work somewhere that doesn’t have licensing with Docker Inc. And I work on a Mac. With Docker desktop out of the picture, I got some experience with the alternatives. I know this post is about the native implementation and not the VM one, but I just wanted to add my 2 cents:

    Alternatives run by me: Podman, Rancher Desktop, Finch

    Results:

    • Podman uses a lot more energy on idle than Finch and Rancher. On AVG 4 more Wats on an M1. (Normal idle is about 5W, so 9 almost doubles it cutting greatly in my battery life)
    • Podman and Finch are not compatible with some tools that expect a full docker sock. In my case the AWS CDK and SAM CLI have issues. (Which is fun as Finch is also made by AWS)
    • Finch does not offer a sock at all
    • Finch requires you to recreate the full VM when updated.
    • If you really want to have a drop-in replacement for Docker Desktop, use Rancher Desktop. Rancher lacks in UI and the extension feature. But I never had issues with the sock, as I can run it with containerd.
    • Finch has no UI
    • Podman’s VM has clock drift if you put your machine in sleep. Only solution I found is to reboot the podman VM.
    • Podman allows you to log in the VM with a command. I haven’t found a way on the others.
      • Scribbd
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        1 year ago

        That is awesome. I prefer podman, despite what my list might suggest.

    • Sparking@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      Wow, 4 watts? That’s a lot. Any insight on what is taking up all this extra energy? I thought that podman would be thinner than docker honestly.

      • Scribbd
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        1 year ago

        I did some shallow digging, and my guess is the virtual machine that is started for each.

        I see that the podman vm is a whole ass fedora image, at least back in 2021 when this article was written.

        Rancher seems to use alpine if I understand the configuration correctly

        Finch also uses fedora… I think. Their config is seemingly simple to the point it looks deceptive.

        • Sparking@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Oh, are you using Podman on windows? Yeah, it needs a virtual machine because it has to load the linux kernel. I would definitely believe that the windows version (or mac, I guess) of podman is way heavier than the alternatives on those platforms, but on linux it just ends up using the host kernel.

          If you are doing this on linux, and still need to load a vm to use podman, that would be interesting. I haven’t run across that, but I haven’t been able to use podman too much.

          • Scribbd
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            1 year ago

            You forgot the third option: A Mac ;)

            • Sparking@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              How are mac’s with VMs? Windows has a bunch of Hypervisor stuff that makes them work pretty well, I don’t use macs, so I wouldn’t know how well they run VMs.

              • Scribbd
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                1 year ago

                I won’t say it is the same. Mac doesn’t have subsystems, for example. But it allows for hypervisors to run. For a while apple had their own on intel CPUs, bootcamp. But they stopped updating it for the Mx line.

                Nevertheless, Mac might not be Linux, it is still UNIX. So it can run qemu and all the tools built for qemu. Wine is also a tool to run windows specifically.