I’m a left leaning centrist because if I went fully left I’d have to justify some of the psycho shit the left does like defending Israel or the ones that think fully getting rid of police overnight is a good idea.
I’m a left leaning centrist because… I’d have to justify some of the psycho shit the left does like defending Israel
or the ones that think fully getting rid of police overnight
You sure have some right wing strawman arguments for a ‘left leaning centrist.’
Disagree with the right on about 90% of issues but some of you really are just too stupid for me to make it any higher. I realize I put a target on myself by openly trying to disagree with a left circlejerk but I honestly expected better.
For someone who claims to lean left, I’d expect you to have at least a basic understanding of leftist/progressive values, yet your comment suggests you don’t.
I’m guessing you’re an American “centrist”, meaning you’re somewhere between Democrats and Republicans, respectively a center-right to right aligned group and an increasingly far-right group.
Most of my values are leftist and progressive but you trying to nail down my political ideologies based on a single comment is about on par with what I expected as a response to me disagreeing with some of the most radical left positions that exist.
It’s because those positions don’t actually exist on the “radical left” (which is a term coined by conservatives to discredit moderate left political policy). “Disbanding the police” is a strawman thrown up by the American mid to far right in response to centrist to center left proposed police reforms and supporting the Israeli genocide is antithetical to leftist values. It may be in line with the American Democratic party, but they’re quantifiably a conservative party.
You’re criticizing non-existent leftist policy and non-leftist values using pejoratives coined by the right while claiming to be progressive. It’s just odd.
“Radical left” was coined by conservatives the same way “Radical right” was coined by progressives. You’ve said absolutely nothing with this line. There are radicals on both ends of the spectrum. Extremists in every group.
“Disbanding the police” is a legitimate position taken by the extreme pockets of the left, some proposing full on anarchy or anarcho-capitalism. I know this because I’ve had to block the communities where this kind of garbage finds popularity. They don’t want a replacement, they don’t want a gradual exchange, they want no cops - immediately. I still disagree with it as a concept because training the officers will get you better quality interactions and more professional cops. Make a law that mandates x% of their budget must go to training. Increase it if they fuck up. Don’t defund them, that’s how you get cheap idiots instead.
I also need you to understand that most people here are talking about American politics and that trying to compare center, left, and right to completely different cultures and political discourse is simply unwise as they’re not compatible. Our left support looting stores and burning down cities for the sake of attention while our right create mass disinformation to fear the stupid people into paranoid support. Committing to either side is intellectually bankrupt.
When I say I’m a left leaning centrist I mean I’ll vote for Biden and support almost every progressive bill or law but I’m also going to cheer violent protestors being locked up as readily as I will the insurrectionists. People get so caught up in tribalism and looking like an ally they forget their principles or independant thought. I refuse to, even if I’m called a villain, party traitor, whatever else.
I mean you’re right that we all form opinions based on emotions and the social pressure from our tribe, and it takes deliberate effort to counter that. I guess you’re getting downvoted due to the echo of “both sides”, but that wasn’t how I read your comment.
If you can’t describe at least a few downsides to your tribe’s vision for humanity you haven’t asked enough questions. Extremists, almost by definition, don’t see the downsides to their own views. This is why they don’t like “centrists”; we ask questions they don’t like the answers to.
I think what they don’t like is being told there’s some sort of ‘middle ground’ with groups like Fascists. Like are we compromising on which minorities aren’t allowed to exist, or which groups are ‘un pure’ and forced to leave (said) country?
There’s also the rather awkward point the ‘centrist’ starts parroting right-wing talking points…
“Centrists” understand that calling everyone you disagree with a fascist takes any real meaning from the word, and removes any possibility of convincing those people that you want to include them in making the world a better place. Progress on societal issues requires bringing society along. Extremists start wars. “Centrists” make progress.
This is true of every single partisan, anarchist, liberal, conservative, whatever.
bOtH sIdEs!
Some people do form opinions based on reality…
Yeah and it’s caused me to lose friends and limit contact with certain family members who only care about what conservatives say is “real”
And centrists, for that matter.
Especially centrist. “I don’t do anything that feels too extreme”, sure this is based on facts
I’m a left leaning centrist because if I went fully left I’d have to justify some of the psycho shit the left does like defending Israel or the ones that think fully getting rid of police overnight is a good idea.
You sure have some right wing strawman arguments for a ‘left leaning centrist.’
Disagree with the right on about 90% of issues but some of you really are just too stupid for me to make it any higher. I realize I put a target on myself by openly trying to disagree with a left circlejerk but I honestly expected better.
For someone who claims to lean left, I’d expect you to have at least a basic understanding of leftist/progressive values, yet your comment suggests you don’t.
I’m guessing you’re an American “centrist”, meaning you’re somewhere between Democrats and Republicans, respectively a center-right to right aligned group and an increasingly far-right group.
Most of my values are leftist and progressive but you trying to nail down my political ideologies based on a single comment is about on par with what I expected as a response to me disagreeing with some of the most radical left positions that exist.
It’s because those positions don’t actually exist on the “radical left” (which is a term coined by conservatives to discredit moderate left political policy). “Disbanding the police” is a strawman thrown up by the American mid to far right in response to centrist to center left proposed police reforms and supporting the Israeli genocide is antithetical to leftist values. It may be in line with the American Democratic party, but they’re quantifiably a conservative party.
You’re criticizing non-existent leftist policy and non-leftist values using pejoratives coined by the right while claiming to be progressive. It’s just odd.
“Radical left” was coined by conservatives the same way “Radical right” was coined by progressives. You’ve said absolutely nothing with this line. There are radicals on both ends of the spectrum. Extremists in every group.
“Disbanding the police” is a legitimate position taken by the extreme pockets of the left, some proposing full on anarchy or anarcho-capitalism. I know this because I’ve had to block the communities where this kind of garbage finds popularity. They don’t want a replacement, they don’t want a gradual exchange, they want no cops - immediately. I still disagree with it as a concept because training the officers will get you better quality interactions and more professional cops. Make a law that mandates x% of their budget must go to training. Increase it if they fuck up. Don’t defund them, that’s how you get cheap idiots instead.
I also need you to understand that most people here are talking about American politics and that trying to compare center, left, and right to completely different cultures and political discourse is simply unwise as they’re not compatible. Our left support looting stores and burning down cities for the sake of attention while our right create mass disinformation to fear the stupid people into paranoid support. Committing to either side is intellectually bankrupt.
When I say I’m a left leaning centrist I mean I’ll vote for Biden and support almost every progressive bill or law but I’m also going to cheer violent protestors being locked up as readily as I will the insurrectionists. People get so caught up in tribalism and looking like an ally they forget their principles or independant thought. I refuse to, even if I’m called a villain, party traitor, whatever else.
Just to give you the benefit of a doubt: Abolish the police has always been about creating alternative systems that lean towards transformative just
And the extreme side of the left don’t want alternate systems, they want them to be gone. Therapists are not a sufficient replacement either.
I’d say it’s true of idiots regardless of their political orientation, yes. But there exist non-idiots who can change their opinion
I mean you’re right that we all form opinions based on emotions and the social pressure from our tribe, and it takes deliberate effort to counter that. I guess you’re getting downvoted due to the echo of “both sides”, but that wasn’t how I read your comment.
The fucking irony of the “flaired users only” tag above it is just so funny.
Hahaha I didn’t even notice that, that’s perfect.
If you can’t describe at least a few downsides to your tribe’s vision for humanity you haven’t asked enough questions. Extremists, almost by definition, don’t see the downsides to their own views. This is why they don’t like “centrists”; we ask questions they don’t like the answers to.
I think what they don’t like is being told there’s some sort of ‘middle ground’ with groups like Fascists. Like are we compromising on which minorities aren’t allowed to exist, or which groups are ‘un pure’ and forced to leave (said) country?
There’s also the rather awkward point the ‘centrist’ starts parroting right-wing talking points…
“Centrists” understand that calling everyone you disagree with a fascist takes any real meaning from the word, and removes any possibility of convincing those people that you want to include them in making the world a better place. Progress on societal issues requires bringing society along. Extremists start wars. “Centrists” make progress.
Centrists tried to work with the Nazis, I don’t recall that turning out so well.
Good thing they didn’t listen to those “extremist” unionists.
He has a point.