No, it’s very much justified in my books. Who am I to tell you what to find offensive or not? It’s very much subjective at the end of the day. As a queer person myself, I do agree with you that language as a whole should be striving to be as inclusive as possible and using words like “gay” as an insult definitely doesn’t help. Wasn’t insinuating that I find their using it that way ok.
I see people using the r-word as an insult on here quite often, for example, and am always happy to point it out and pick a fight. So no worries. I get you.
I get a little over-passionate about my responses. Sometimes I feel like it’s the only way people actually listen, if they can hear the anger in the words. I totally agree about language being as inclusive as possible, or at least being used in non-offensive ways when possible.
It’s why I keep pointing out when people say “that’s dumb and so gay” or when guys call other guys “she” as a put down. I hate to say it, but it does show that men really think of being a woman as in inferior kind of human being.
Right back at you. It shows that you’ve been thinking about these subjects a lot, and that’s awesome.
Yea, for sure. I’m a cis male, but I do enjoy me some nail polish, ear piercings, and some light makeup from time to time. Most of the people I’m around know me well and are based enough to know not to point that out or ridicule it - most, if not all of them, encourage it even - but there are always people, even my family members, who make it their job to comment on it and add their unwanted opinions. I usually just let them talk their bigotry and don’t mind it, but sometimes it gets to you. So I get why said something and am happy about it.
Even before touching all of these “heavy” subjects, we can do so much by just being inclusive in the way we communicate with one another.
Fun fact: It’s been a really big debate in Germany for the past couple years whether it’s “appropriate” to use gender-inclusive versions of words that historically have been used in their masculine-neutral form in order to foster inclusivity, or if it’s damaging to the German language (it’s not, shut up lol). Stuff like that exists in all languages, I think, and English being a lingua franca, it should be possible to use it as neutrally as possible in such circumstances because it’s just not that big a deal to not use these notoriously bigoted words.
Does the last paragraph even make sense?! Sorry, pretty much just rambling.
Well I’m a cis male also, and very openly gay (though I still don’t really think that word describes anything about me other than sexual preference). It’s great that you are secure enough to be able to enjoy the possibilities of wearing anything you want, including ear rings or ear piercings or nail polish.
And yeah, I mean I’m open about being gay but I don’t own a rainbow flag or a teddy bear, and my favorite film isnt’ “The Wizard of oz.” (How’d that even get associated with us is something I’m still baffled about). Yet people can sometimes tell I’m gay, and some are cool with it while others suddenly seem like I insulted their mom and never talk to me again. Good for me!
You’re right that we should at least try to be inclusive when we talk with each other. Insults and put downs just shut people down and keep them from having open honest communication.
Your paragraph makes perfect sense to me. I will say that I do sometimes find it very confusing what to say to say in gender-neutral situations. It’s hard because I’m an English major and very old-school, so when someone says “they” to mean “her or him,” it sort of feels like a road bump I overlooked but not on purpose.
if that makes sense. Language is alive and active and it should be inclusive also wherever possible. That also means not hating on people like me who sometimes still use pronouns in an old-school kind of way.
Totally agree with your first couple paragraphs. Language is ever-evolving and that’s good. Descriptivism vs. prescriptivism is what I tell people when they act out about “non-proper” usage of language or contemporary teen language. Language is a tool to be used by us and is forged by our needs. It should also be adaptable to not exclude people on their very personal beliefs, be they of sexual prefence, political or religious orientation, and everything else similar to these.
It’s cool to have a heart-to-heart about language with people on Lemmy - it should be discussed way more on here. Do you know of any good linguistics communities on here?
I don’t know of any off hand, I was in a discussion with someone else here about linguistics but because I disagreed with a point they made, they called me an idiot and stopped communicating. I mean, right there is an example of what I mean about being open to other people’s ideas rather that dismissive of everything.
Like I said I’m an English major and have always been a short story writer, so language is quite important to me and yet I know that some of my ideas are from the older ways of thinking about language (after all, it was over 40 years ago that I got my degree). And I try not to ever deliberately exclude people if I happen to use old-school ways of labeling men and women.
That comes from the place I was educated and the beliefs I had growing up, not any desire to be ignorant to others at all. In fact I always hope that my writing can reach across barriers in some way.
I hear you
Thanks, I went a little overboard in my anger.
No, it’s very much justified in my books. Who am I to tell you what to find offensive or not? It’s very much subjective at the end of the day. As a queer person myself, I do agree with you that language as a whole should be striving to be as inclusive as possible and using words like “gay” as an insult definitely doesn’t help. Wasn’t insinuating that I find their using it that way ok.
I see people using the r-word as an insult on here quite often, for example, and am always happy to point it out and pick a fight. So no worries. I get you.
I get a little over-passionate about my responses. Sometimes I feel like it’s the only way people actually listen, if they can hear the anger in the words. I totally agree about language being as inclusive as possible, or at least being used in non-offensive ways when possible.
It’s why I keep pointing out when people say “that’s dumb and so gay” or when guys call other guys “she” as a put down. I hate to say it, but it does show that men really think of being a woman as in inferior kind of human being.
I appreciate your thoughtful replies!
Right back at you. It shows that you’ve been thinking about these subjects a lot, and that’s awesome.
Yea, for sure. I’m a cis male, but I do enjoy me some nail polish, ear piercings, and some light makeup from time to time. Most of the people I’m around know me well and are based enough to know not to point that out or ridicule it - most, if not all of them, encourage it even - but there are always people, even my family members, who make it their job to comment on it and add their unwanted opinions. I usually just let them talk their bigotry and don’t mind it, but sometimes it gets to you. So I get why said something and am happy about it.
Even before touching all of these “heavy” subjects, we can do so much by just being inclusive in the way we communicate with one another.
Fun fact: It’s been a really big debate in Germany for the past couple years whether it’s “appropriate” to use gender-inclusive versions of words that historically have been used in their masculine-neutral form in order to foster inclusivity, or if it’s damaging to the German language (it’s not, shut up lol). Stuff like that exists in all languages, I think, and English being a lingua franca, it should be possible to use it as neutrally as possible in such circumstances because it’s just not that big a deal to not use these notoriously bigoted words.
Does the last paragraph even make sense?! Sorry, pretty much just rambling.
Well I’m a cis male also, and very openly gay (though I still don’t really think that word describes anything about me other than sexual preference). It’s great that you are secure enough to be able to enjoy the possibilities of wearing anything you want, including ear rings or ear piercings or nail polish.
And yeah, I mean I’m open about being gay but I don’t own a rainbow flag or a teddy bear, and my favorite film isnt’ “The Wizard of oz.” (How’d that even get associated with us is something I’m still baffled about). Yet people can sometimes tell I’m gay, and some are cool with it while others suddenly seem like I insulted their mom and never talk to me again. Good for me!
You’re right that we should at least try to be inclusive when we talk with each other. Insults and put downs just shut people down and keep them from having open honest communication.
Your paragraph makes perfect sense to me. I will say that I do sometimes find it very confusing what to say to say in gender-neutral situations. It’s hard because I’m an English major and very old-school, so when someone says “they” to mean “her or him,” it sort of feels like a road bump I overlooked but not on purpose.
if that makes sense. Language is alive and active and it should be inclusive also wherever possible. That also means not hating on people like me who sometimes still use pronouns in an old-school kind of way.
Totally agree with your first couple paragraphs. Language is ever-evolving and that’s good. Descriptivism vs. prescriptivism is what I tell people when they act out about “non-proper” usage of language or contemporary teen language. Language is a tool to be used by us and is forged by our needs. It should also be adaptable to not exclude people on their very personal beliefs, be they of sexual prefence, political or religious orientation, and everything else similar to these.
It’s cool to have a heart-to-heart about language with people on Lemmy - it should be discussed way more on here. Do you know of any good linguistics communities on here?
I don’t know of any off hand, I was in a discussion with someone else here about linguistics but because I disagreed with a point they made, they called me an idiot and stopped communicating. I mean, right there is an example of what I mean about being open to other people’s ideas rather that dismissive of everything.
Like I said I’m an English major and have always been a short story writer, so language is quite important to me and yet I know that some of my ideas are from the older ways of thinking about language (after all, it was over 40 years ago that I got my degree). And I try not to ever deliberately exclude people if I happen to use old-school ways of labeling men and women.
That comes from the place I was educated and the beliefs I had growing up, not any desire to be ignorant to others at all. In fact I always hope that my writing can reach across barriers in some way.