We were easy marks.

  • keeb420@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    Across all 111 planned new hydrogen fueling stations, an average hydrogen station has capacity of 1,240
    kg/day (median capacity of 1,500 kg/day) and requires approximately $1.9 million in capital (median
    capital cost of $1.9 million).

    https://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/21002-hydrogen-fueling-station-cost.pdf

    Most commercial enterprises look to install level two charging stations, which run on 240-volt power and provide a compromise between power and cost. A level two electric vehicle charging station costs around $2,500 for a non public facing and $5,500 for a public facing dual-port station—it can charge two cars simultaneously in eight to 10 hours.

    https://futureenergy.com/ev-charging/how-much-do-ev-charging-stations-cost/

    As more drivers purchase plug-in electric vehicles (PEVs), there is a growing need for a network of electric
    vehicle supply equipment (EVSE) to provide power to those vehicles. PEV drivers will primarily charge
    their vehicles using residential EVSE, but there is also a need for non-residential EVSE in workplace, public,
    and fleet settings. This report provides information about the costs associated with purchasing, installing,
    and owning non-residential EVSE. Cost information is compiled from various studies around the country, as
    well as input from EVSE owners, manufacturers, installers, and utilities. The cost of a single port EVSE unit
    ranges from $300-$1,500 for Level 1, $400-$6,500 for Level 2, and $10,000-$40,000 for DC fast charging.
    Installation costs vary greatly from site to site with a ballpark cost range of $0-$3,000 for Level 1, $600-
    $12,700 for Level 2, and $4,000-$51,000 for DC fast charging.

    https://afdc.energy.gov/files/u/publication/evse_cost_report_2015.pdf

    or its cheaper to install ev chargers.

    • Hypx@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      More stations more greater economies of scale. At some point this will be no more expensive than a gas station. Also, you have a much greater capacity per station compared to a charging station. It will pencil out to being cheaper than building the much greater number of charging stations. Not to mention maintenance. The cost of maintaining millions of charging stations will be a major challenge.

      • keeb420@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        im no business major but even i can see its a no brainer to go with an 38 ev chargers vs 1 hydrogen station. and the same economies of scale will make it cheaper to build more ev stations cheaper. hydrogen may have a place, trucking and busses like greyhound might make sense for hydrogen but currently it makes no sense to build a hydrogen station for normal passenger vehicles.

        • Hypx@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          Until you realize that 1 hydrogen station can refuel hundreds of cars per day. Economies of scale are in hydrogen’s favor. BEV advocates are simply lying about the facts.

            • Hypx@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              At 38x time the land area and far greater power consumption. And it does not scale very well either. Double the number of stations and everything doubles in cost. Nor are you getting a full 400 miles if you are assuming fast charging. You’re looking at only a 80% max charge in that situation. Meanwhile, with hydrogen, you just need bigger tanks to support multiple stations. Everyone is fully refueled after 5 minutes consistently. It is the same idea as natural gas refueling stations. Once costs drop due to increases production and economies of scale, the hydrogen stations easily wins this argument in a walk.

              Again, BEV advocates are simply lying. They are just trying to defend their car purchase. It is completely at odds with economics and physics.

              • keeb420@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                ev chargers can be installed in existing parking lots negating a lot of that space issues. however if a gas station wants to serve both gas and hydrogen theirs only so much room for the tanks needed underground. and if you want bigger tanks thats even less room for other tanks.

                have fun waiting for hydrogen, the rest of us are gonna leave you behind.

                • Hypx@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  You will have to tear up all those parking spaces to put up chargers. Meanwhile, those gas stations already exist and it would just mean repurposing them for hydrogen.

                  Guys like you are just stuck in the past. You’ll end up cheering on a dead end because you cannot conceive of progress in the car industry.

                  • keeb420@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    a trench a few feet deep vs digging deep enough to put a giant pressure vessel underground. which is harder? theres some work, sure, to install ev chargers but its much less, hince the price difference to install, to run copper wire in a conduit than it is to dig a hole for the pressure vessel to hold the hydrogen.