Hi everyone,
Currently looking at either a Pixel 8 or a S23 as a replacement for my Zenfone 8 that is slowly becoming a hindrence due to (primarily) the battery. I would replace it, but as it costs a lot to do that here and I have needs for a non-compromised water protection DIY feels like a dangerous option.
So S23 vs Pixel 8, what would you guys recommend assuming I can get either for the same price?
I like the S23 hardware a bit better on paper, but as Pixel phones generally are very flashable my anti-Google sentiments might (ironically) push me there.
I would get a fairphone 5 for the hot-swappable battery etc if they weren’t so expensive for what you get, and as Im buying second hand reuse is better for the environment anyways.
1000% pixel 8 + grapheneos.
Sauce: former Samsung user tired of the bloatware, spying, terrible battery life due to constantly running bullshit in the background, etc. who moved to a pixel 8 + grapheneos. The experience is night and day and its quite liberating to finally feel like I own my phone and not the other way around.
I had an unlocked S20 for 3 years and battery life was great until I dropped it twice in as many months and it stopped working. Was simple to disable things running in the background. Didn’t notice much difference to stock android and lineageOS personally. Just tossing out another viewpoint
The biggest “bloat” issue for me was going from pixel to Samsung. I was able to configure apps and launchers the way I liked just fine, but the Samsung specific version of all the main apps (internet browser, calculator, etc.) was unexpected. There are plenty of Google bloat apps that I have to disable on a new pixel, though.
I appreciate the freedom feeling, bought a Pocophone F1 a couple years ago just to flash it with custom roms.
Have you tried Lineage? How would you compare the experience of using them if so? Some of the custom roms I’ve tried had some things I missed UX/functionality wise but as people seem quite happy with Graphene I assume it is nice to use.
I actually use lineage on my tablet… its an older unofficial build so I’m not sure how representative it is of the wider lineageos, but IMO its good at what it does, keeping old devices running long after Google abandons them, but its nowhere near the polish and thoughtful design the grapheneos team puts out.
I will go for this as well. The only reason I tolerate Samsung is the S-pen on the note or ultra series.
You can install GrapheneOS on the Pixel so I’d say that one.
This is the only correct answer. I’m over all the Samsung bloatware.
Is it still that bad huh? I had an A50 before and the bloat was one of the reasons I disliked that phone.
If you buy an unlocked phone not from a carrier it’s not that bad at all really. Samsung dupes are easily disabled in the settings.
Oh yeah it only gets worse lol I’m on the S21 Ultra and it was an undertaking to de-Samsung as much as I could. Also, GrapheneOS never got bad, just the dev that got a little unhinged. But he has since stepped back on the project and regardless of his ramblings, it’s still the single most private and secure mobile OS.
Okay, good to know! Do you know whether banking etc is a problem on graphene or not? Last time I used custom roms I got it working with microg but I heard there might have been some regressions?
Some banking apps might not work: https://grapheneos.org/usage#banking-apps
But I don’t think this is a common issue. There is an unofficial list of working apps on here: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/
Yeah, that is one of the reasons I’m intrigued. Havent looked at it since the Rossman/Daniel Micay thing though, is it still good?
As long as you don’t interact with the devs lol. It’s a really good OS despite the controversy.
Okay, cool! Several people here seem to recommend it so I will add it to the “scale”
Micay stepped down as lead developer and foundation director. I’m not sure what role he has with the project currently, but it seems like he plans on leaving the project entirely, long term. I haven’t heard of any controversy since then. They’ve been hard at work and actually added support for Android Auto last month.
Daniel is okay. The shit he got from opinion-spreading people like Rossman… doesnt make sense.
He is still very active, maybe not the official head of the project but will still answer like every Github issue.
He and many others have very profound Android knowledge and discuss.grapheneos.org and their website is really helpful.
GrapheneOS is simply a good system. They change so much in minimalist ways that make sense, like sandboxed play or enhanced permission toggles.
Pixels have the best support for community ROMs.
And seven years of guaranteed Android updates.
Not really relevant for a person who wants to use community ROMs because of “anti-Google sentiments”.
Actually, it still is relevant because custom ROMs often incorporate driver and security updates to the base ROM.
I know Graphene recommends against the out-of-support Pixels for this reason.
If your stock OS doesnt ship updates it is very likely the custom OS will also not be able to ship them
After Samsung and Google announced lengthy support cycles for their phones, at least about the Snapdragon based ones observers made comment about Qualcomm not releasing driver updates for that long. I don’t know how it’s for Tensor but those are partially based on tech from 3rd parties. Technically drivers aren’t part of Android anyway, so when vendors guarantee 7 years of Android updates, they could just not update the drivers at some point and hardly anyone would notice.
I’m not sure that’s a fair comment - I’m on lineage and I’m still getting rom and android security updates, but not vendor ones. On an OP9 for context.
I get LineageOS updates for my ancient Nexus 4.
This is really nice, but the updates do not include everything. Phones are SOCs and Android uses a custom Kernel made for that device, and Firmware needs to be signed by manifacturers. If the manifacturers dont care, you will be open to many vulnerabilities.
When OEMs commit to 7 years of updates but the SoC provider doesn’t support their chips for that long, later updates don’t contain everything anyway.
ROM is read only memory :D thats a tiny part of the firmware that loads the rest of the firmware. GrapheneOS and everything else is an OS, not a ROM.
No idea where that name comes from
Two cents, I was going to recommend fairphone, my pixel 6 has been one irritating “update” after another that has made features worse and worse and some at this point have become bugs.
I’m completely over pixels and will be getting a fairphone next, great design and ethics I can feel good about.
Also, wtf no expandable storage, Google? What a shitty choice. I had cheaper phones with terabytes of storage years ago.
Check the 8 camera too, my pixel does some irritating high contrast postproc that I cannot turn off no matter what options are deselected, and even if I choose raw photos, the night looks like day.
Night sight is amazing for night vision but it makes my night pictures look almost like daylight, it’s crazy.
I’ll stop there, but the issues abound.
If you own a Pixel, get GrapheneOS. Please give it a try! AOSP has not very many features, but GrapheneOS is profound.
I sadly have to advise against Fairphones. They make empty promises, include outdated hardware in their phones so they will not actually get that long firmware updates as promised.
Also, they are way less secure than a Pixel.
And they get quick access to Android Updates as they are certified, and still are extremely late at shipping the updates on time.
GrapheneOS can literally just see them when they are out, but still has only a delay of a day or so.
Fairphone is not a good company it seems. They are a bit more repairable, but their phones are way less secure and you shouldnt use their OS.
But I haven’t heard anything that negates their ethically sourced materials or work force re Fairphone
Afaik they paid slightly better than others but still basically the same
Afaik, they don’t use child slavery, use sustainable manufacturing practices, they’re highly transparent about their labor practices and sourcing, strongly focused on environmentalism, and making things easy for their customers in terms of reparability and os customization.
I’m sure they’re not perfect, but they’re blowing away the competition I’m aware of with respect to responsibility, sustainability, trust, respect and service for their customers.
Fairphones run Google’s Android operating system. As phone hardware improves, Google updates Android to increase functionality, and these updates render long-life hardware of Fairphones obsolete. Fairphone responds by slowing the frequency of updates on their phones, but certain apps require the latest Android version to run.
Thats not a technical report but still very strange.
In general I couldnt find anything through a quick search, but I remember hearing that Apple pays the workers more than Fairphone.
Oh, I’m definitely getting one of the murena fairphones, I wanted a Linux phone OS forever.
I’d be interested in seeing a source for Apple and fairphone worker wages, that makes zero sense to me, since so much of apples assembly work is done in China, specifically to keep manufacturing costs down.
Maybe because Apple pays more to their US engineers or something? But the children harvesting the minerals and the factory workers working 16-hour shifts in apple factories in China are the ones I’m concerned about.
I much prefer ethically sourced smartphone materials and workers, and as far as I can tell, fair phone is the only smartphone company committed to those sustainable and respectful ideals.
Android is Linux, and every custom Android is just using AOSP (The Android open source project) ans putting some stuff on top, adding apps, thats it.
GrapheneOS is the only project adding substantial hardening, security and privacy improvements.
They will also never do something that doesnt work well. For example they have an internet permission, while LineageOS has a different method that may not be as secure and thus privacy friendly.
Phone companies often use the same manifacturers. No those were about the wages of the workers in the factories in china. Everyone produces in China basically, they are the best and have the most advanced tech too.
Yes I also think Fairphone is trying to be sustainable. They are doing good stuff, but they are too small to have their own factories etc.
Thanks, I’ll look into that you’re saying.
I have heard a lot about grapheneos but haven’t tried it yet
I have an S23U and a P8P and I vastly prefer the S23U.
But, if it’s flashability you’re after then it’d have to be the Pixel.
Pixels support all security features and fully verified boot for Custom Android Versions.
Nobody should use the complete tracking Android that comes preinstalled on any Smartphone really.
It not like “kinda bad”. Those are literally just tracking devices.
By far the Pixel. Install GrapheneOS on it, its great
If you look into Android its damn scary. Especially Samsung is completely full of bloatware, they even preinstalled Facebook at least on an S9 which I looked at.
https://github.com/trytomakeyouprivate/Android-Tipps/blob/main/debloat/Samsung.md
All those hardware specs are not important. The question is: Is this a device that I use to do things with and otherwise is shuts up? Or is this constantly tracking me step by step, preinstalling bloatware and phoning data to at least 2 parties?
Google Pixel stock Android is also full of Tracking. But Google has full custom Android support. Every security feature, the cameras, etc. all work.
Also updates are really really fast. Other manifacturers are delayed by months, Google and GrapheneOS are extremely fast
I opted for a pixel 7 to run GrapheneOS. I would ask if you have a reason to be on Samsung’s ecosystem. I think both brands are offering long term OS support too.
Was looking at the pixel 7 as well, but it is technically a hardware downgrade from my current zenfone 8. Very happy with the zenfone performance so a bit worried the 7 would feel sluggish, or at least slower…
A 7 is not sluggish at all. I have no idea why phones have to be that fast XD
And hardware downgrade is subjective, if it gets updates its better
I am currently still using my S21 which I debloated as much as possible without flashing a different ROM on it (I don’t want to potentially break Knox). I’ve always preferred Samsung’s hardware and I prefer the smaller size to the Pixels which have gotten so big now. I still think my next phone will be a Pixel so I can use grapheneOS on it, especially now that you can use Android Auto in Graphene now. But the bulkiness of pixels really does turn me off to them. I am not a fan of their huge camera bar bumps either.
Pixel hardware does suck. They are so huge and actively got worse.
Camera of a P6a is worse than a P4a! And no headphone jack on such a huge phone.
I’m actually waiting for the new Pixel 8A to come out sometime in May. Currently have Pixel 5 with grapheneos and I’m gonna have graphene on the pixel 8a as well.
Ahaha I have the same problem. https://sh.itjust.works/post/13148131
Another thing is that the pixel8a has been leaked and that it solves the biggest Pixel 8 issue: The camera bar is thinner.
Great minds think alike! (Or the availability of compact phones with more than 2 years of software updates is unfortunately small)
Ah cool, waiting for the pixel 8a might be an interesting option as well assuming they release it within a couple of months
I’m still pissed I’m locked into pixel pass paying for my 6a and can’t unsubscribe from it without paying off the phone. I don’t want YouTube music or premium anymore or play pass, but I’m stuck until 2025 or the phone is paid off and Google discontinued pixel pass altogether so it’s not like I’m getting a new phone when that period is up…I really feel like there should’ve been lawsuits and fines for what they did with pixel pass. My point being, pixels are great, Google services are terrible, if you can get a Samsung get a Samsung.
Samsung is full of Spyware and ads. Pixel, not sure.
But I would seriously consider Motorola since the Edge 30 is fantastic. Great battery time, no Spyware, everything just works.
I’m starting to think that samsung pays reviewers since they are always at the top, but are shitty phones.
Never had a single ad on any Galaxy phone I’ve owned and that’s probably the last 5 or 6. I’ve also had a few pixels mixed in.
They’re far from shitty phones. Great battery life, great performance , great cameras… have you ever actually used one and compared it, or are you just regurgitating crap you hear.
Motorola
Depending on where you are, a Chinese lenovoPhone carries a lot of fearful connotations.
I fucking love my pixel.
Instead of AT&T, Samsung and Google spying on me it’s just AT&T and Google.
And surprisingly if you read all the fine print, they do mention a lot of what they collect, so maybe it’s not all terrible to have one less company spying on me
Get GrapheneOS! Now its just AT&T and you can just enable Airplane mode and use it over wifi.
Got an s23 ultra last year, I’m loving it. I don’t really know what the people here mean by bloat, you can uninstall almost everything you don’t want, and disable the rest of the apps right from the phone. ADB exists if you want to dive deeper but I haven’t found the need.
Loving the fast chip and crazy cameras, some of Samsung’s extensive software is actually useful, and one ui has more customisability than any other flavour I’ve tried before. Much of the customisation is hidden behind this this app called Goodlock that allows you to change pretty much anything on the os. For example you can hide the app names on the home screen or have different actions depending on the angle you drag the back gesture from the side (I have a down swipe set to a system wide search for example). It’s crazy in comparison that Google doesn’t even allow you to remove their dumb search bar from the home screen without changing to a different launcher.
Even so, there are some small idiosyncrasies that are annoying. You can’t have a vertical app drawer without changing launcher, it’s annoying to apply themes from the play store and not Samsung’s shitty theme store, and if you unlock your phone with your face you can’t still tap your finger afterwards to unlock, you have to swipe. Every platform has some of these, you gotta pick your poison here. Graphene os up until recently didn’t support android auto and I still don’t think you can use your phone for contactless payments. Not sure about play protect and banking apps, I’m sure others here can tell you.
I the end, I got the ultra for the camera hardware but I also really didn’t want to give Google any money. With Graphene os now having android auto I might have reconsidered but I’d have to do more research on what limitations Graphene has.
How do you find the battery life? The ultra looks interesting (I feel I would get good use out of the pen), but sadly a bit too expensive for me to consider it good value.
Battery life is brilliant! I have my phone set to only charge to 85% to preserve battery health and the only times it runs out is next day when I forget to charge it overnight. The snapdragon 8gen2 is much more efficient than the gen1 the year before (and Google’s tensor chips). I was not happy with the price either. The S23 is 90% of the ultra for much less money. I ended up going with the ultra purely because I kinda disliked the shape/feel of the S23 in my hands and found a decent deal. But the s23 is much better value (same chip, still very good camera and screen) all you’re missing out is the 10x zoom and the S-pen, both of wich are nice to have but definitely situational.
https://github.com/trytomakeyouprivate/Android-Tipps/blob/main/debloat/Samsung.md
Look if those are still there?
Those are are from an S9 and its veeeery bad. The worst I ever saw. And you cant disable “system components” through the GUI.
The core OS has no GUI app icons. That is the part that is spying on you. The GUI apps mostly have permissions and all, this is not the problem
I didn’t buy the Pixel almost entirely because it doesn’t support HDMI video out through the USB-C port. I use that to watch movies from my phone on hotel TVs, or my AR glasses, etc. So I went with the S22. Also has Dex, in case you want to use the phone as a tiny computer with an external monitor, keyboard and mouse.
