You pretending that your lifetime commitment of supporting an animal abuse industry doesn’t lead to blood shed is patronozing lol. You can make your own hoops and pretend they don’t lead to suffering but they do. You are responsible for their deaths if you pay for them. Stop making excuses to hurt more animals
there is no causation, unless you are saying farmers and abotoir workers and food supply workers and grocers don’t have free will. but they do, so there is no causation.
“Free will doesn’t exist thus I can do whatever I want” is a horrible hill to die on. A lot of these workers are stuck in the line of work if they want to get out, slaughter house immigrants or diary farmers trying to transition to plant based agriculture. You going to the grocery store when you have the option to buy a can of chickpeas and make some curry instead of buying chicken to make some curry is immoral
I do when it’s violating another being’s atonomy who can suffer lol. You’re the aggressor in the scenario. I am doing the baseline, you’re voting for death
Not voting
Supporting buisness practices by paying for them is voting to keep those practices in buianess
capacity to suffer
Because if I were to hurt you, you wouldn’t like it. I respect your autonomy and believe it’s wrong to hurt you unless I absolutely had to to defend myself. We don’t need to hurt animals, we should love and care for them. Most people feel the same about dogs without advocating for their wellbeing, it shouldn’t stop at dogs.
but nothing is immoral about eating meat or dairy or eggs or honey
It encourages the commodification of animals. unless you’re dumpater diving there will always be harm to some degree aquiring animal products
Meat is never painless, animals wait in a line and hear their fate up ahead at a slaughter house. Bolt guns don’t work properly and can worsen the situation. Breeding requiring AI (artifical semination) which is a violation of their sexual autonomy and outright disgusting that humans do that. Most never see daylight till the roadtrip to the slaughter house, without food or water.
Honey encourages gassing, mailing queens without food or water for days, destruction to local bee populations, and malnurishment by replacing their honey with sugar water.
Male egg laying hens get macerated alive at hatch. Eggs cause chickens to be extrmely malnourished. They produce vastly more eggs than they should and often end up with little to no calcium. They will eat their eggs to regain the nutrients if they can.
It’s extremely wasteful. Animals lose most calories they intake through energy loss. Its better to grow plants and feed them to ourselves than to breed and kill. Would you be fine breeding and killing humans? Whats the morally significant difference?
With ethics people either end up doubling down on all murder being ok except for theirself or going vegan. There isn’t any morally significant difference that is so strong it justifies hurting animals and doesn’t justify hurting humans
Lol you would rather do 15 backflips and double down than just stop hurting animals. NTT isn’t trash and criticism of it I’ve never found to hold up. Elaborate more don’t just state
any meat I get comes from an animal that’s long dead. my consumption can’t possibly harm it any more, and it can’t causally lead to any other animal beings harmed.
Voting is not inherently equal lol. You’re conflating and equality based democracy with voting. Voting is when you support someone or something with an action. You can’t wiggle your way around words with semamtics, it’s still voting. Either way you know what I mean by it so debating a definition is ridiculous
you don’t know what I need and it’s patronizing for you to tell me what I should be eating.
You pretending that your lifetime commitment of supporting an animal abuse industry doesn’t lead to blood shed is patronozing lol. You can make your own hoops and pretend they don’t lead to suffering but they do. You are responsible for their deaths if you pay for them. Stop making excuses to hurt more animals
patronizing would be me presuming how you should take care of your own needs.
I do take care of my own needs. And do the baseline of not causing unnecesary harm.
since there is no causal link between what i buy and what is produced, i’m in the same boat.
Yes there is
there is no causation, unless you are saying farmers and abotoir workers and food supply workers and grocers don’t have free will. but they do, so there is no causation.
“Free will doesn’t exist thus I can do whatever I want” is a horrible hill to die on. A lot of these workers are stuck in the line of work if they want to get out, slaughter house immigrants or diary farmers trying to transition to plant based agriculture. You going to the grocery store when you have the option to buy a can of chickpeas and make some curry instead of buying chicken to make some curry is immoral
I didn’t say free will doesn’t exist. I’m saying it does. so I can’t be responsible for what other people choose to do.
Then why do factory farms breed and murder animals?
it’s not murder.
It’s murder.
only by definitions that stretch the term to meaninglessness
It’s killing another being who’s morally significant. It’s murder. Just as killing someone’s dog is murder.
i do t know what you mean by morally significant
Stop enabling a cruel industry
i’m uninvolved with the industry
You fund it
no I don’t
If you pay for animal products you do
no, I dont
your storytelling is not a substitute for causation.
It’s literally how it works, it’s not story telling
the story you tell doesn’t reflect reality.
How does it not
there is no causal link between consuming something and more of it being made.
Yes there is lmao
no there isnt
Stop making excuses for death and abuse
i didn’t make any excuse.
You act like you don’t contribute to deaths
I don’t
I do when it’s violating another being’s atonomy who can suffer lol. You’re the aggressor in the scenario. I am doing the baseline, you’re voting for death
what does the capacity to suffer matter?
you are projecting your ethics onto me. I take a different approach than you(clearly), so I have come to a different conclusion.
Watch what you’re supporting, watchdomimion.org
that video sucks. and you should give a trigger warning when you link gore.
It’s an educational documentary about the standard practices you support.
it’s not about standard practices, and it’s not well made
Your different approach to ethics doesn’t make the killing acceptable. It’s wrong either way.
killing animals for food is good, actually.
It’s extremely wasteful. Animals lose most calories they intake through energy loss. Its better to grow plants and feed them to ourselves than to breed and kill. Would you be fine breeding and killing humans? Whats the morally significant difference?
once the animals have consumed the calories, it’s wasteful not to harvest them. killing animals for food is good.
the difference is that they are human.
Go vegan
i don’t see any good reason to do that.
To stop hurting animals
I’m not hurting animals now.
With ethics people either end up doubling down on all murder being ok except for theirself or going vegan. There isn’t any morally significant difference that is so strong it justifies hurting animals and doesn’t justify hurting humans
i think you’re (clumsily) referring to the NTT argument, which falls afowl of the line-drawing fallacy
Lol you would rather do 15 backflips and double down than just stop hurting animals. NTT isn’t trash and criticism of it I’ve never found to hold up. Elaborate more don’t just state
if you care to lay out your argument I will be happy to show the flaw.
that’s just not true. kant was fine with animal husbandry and against murder.
Kant is a joke
so you can see how people disagree about moral frameworks.
any meat I get comes from an animal that’s long dead. my consumption can’t possibly harm it any more, and it can’t causally lead to any other animal beings harmed.
You pay for more to be bred and killed. It’s why they’re bred and killed in the first place, because people support it.
no, i pay for food.
Which pays for death.
no, it doesnt
all of your complaints about the animal industry aren’t going to be changed whether I’m vegan or not.
You have the option to not enable 200+ deaths annually.
whether i buy meat or not, more animals will be killed this year than last.
You contribute directly to 200+ by not being vegan a year. Just because others support it doesn’t mean you should or they should.
no, I don’t. regardless of what I buy, more animals are killed every year
Stop voting for corpses
i’m not.
How are you not
I’m not voting for corpses. it’s just not something I do.
that’s not what voting is.
Saying that doesn’t make it true
voting is when people get an equal chance to decide the outcome of an election. buying things isn’t voting.
Voting is not inherently equal lol. You’re conflating and equality based democracy with voting. Voting is when you support someone or something with an action. You can’t wiggle your way around words with semamtics, it’s still voting. Either way you know what I mean by it so debating a definition is ridiculous
you’re stretching the definition of voting to meaninglessness
Yes it is.
no, it’s not.
How so
buying meat on a shelf doesn’t have impart any agreement for more meat to be made
I’m not voting at all.