TO THE ADMINS: Read this thread and give me one good reason why federating with toxic, propaganda spreading tankie loons is a good idea.
No one wants those fucks, or the alt right dipshits for that matter, around, and they’re spreading blatant lies, yet I see they are here. Does lemm.ee only care about boosting its numbers and is willing to sink to new lows to do it, I wonder? 🤔
I second. Please do the instance a favor and disconnect from them. They are bad faith actors here to do nothing but cause chaos. If I could block them on my own, I would have done it day one.
im sure many in ur instance want us “fucks” around. where is the lie btw? if its so blatant you should be able to back up ur refutation w evidence
For the time being, I have no plans to change our federation policy. I realize this is not what you want to hear, and I’m sorry to disappoint you. It’s just not a goal for lemm.ee to curate external instances for now.
There are probably many instances out there that have horrible content (content which would get users banned if they posted it on lemm.ee), but vetting instances and maintaining a defederation list is a big effort, and I believe this effort is much better spent elsewhere.
I’ve stated this in many other similar threads, but let me also reiterate here: the above should not be taken to mean that lemm.ee is some bastion of free speech absolutism. Users or communities breaking rules on lemm.ee are dealt with. Also, we do reserve the right to defederate any instance which starts causing problems for lemm.ee on a bigger scale (so in cases where banning individual users is not effective).
I realize this is a topic where it’s impossible to make everybody happy, because each person has their own view on what should be federated or defederated. At the end of the day, for anything that’s not illegal or directly hurting lemm.ee, I believe it’s best to leave these decisions up to users - you can make your own choices with which users and communities you block, and I’m certain that soon you’ll have the tools built in to Lemmy itself to make the same decision on an instance level as well. And if that doesn’t work for you, then there’s always the possibility of joining a different instance with a different approach to federation.
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For the record, I changed my opinion regarding hexbear. While I generally very much appreciate the open federation policy, I think users from that instance overwhelmingly deteriorate the culture in comment sections. Appreciable individual exceptions exist.
Thanks for this attitude. Lets me know I’m on the right instance. I want to be able to choose who I block, and I don’t want someone else choosing that for me.
🤦 Wasted my time and effort on a garbage instance again.
Bye
Please don’t go, lemmy.ee won’t survive without you!
Why don’t you just start your own? You can defederate any instance you want.
I’m on lemm.ee but I’ve personally blocked communities I’ve found to be toxic, some of them were on lemmygrad. I see very little tankie shit. Took me like 5 minutes.
People half-joke that coming to Fediverse is easy, all you need to do is select a provider like you do with e-mail.
In case of Lemmy this omits the part where you have to block dozens of communities because they shill for genocidal regimes and you can’t block them and their users wholesale using instances. You also have to be on a lookout for trolls that coordinate on those instances and use alts from other instances. If you aren’t careful enough your experience might be akin to a conspiracy Facebook group but obviously it’s users fault.
Mastodon doesn’t have this issue despite using same Activity Pub framework.
Kbin doesn’t have it.
It’s Lemmy developers and instances that somehow ended up with staggering amount of tankie trolls, to the extent that exceeds even alt-right trolls on Reddit.
Telling people to start their own instances is acknowledging that the issue is so widespread that there are no instances with sane policies.
I had to block so much fucking celebrity, right wing, sports, etc bullshit on Reddit. It’s literally the same issue just different genres of communities. I probably had 100+ subreddits blocked in Apollo.
But defederating Threads was fine lol.
We need to stop recommending Lemm.ee to newcomers, it’s hostile to normal folks.
The approach to federation with Facebook is documented here: https://lemm.ee/post/851217
My criticism of that idea is also documented there.
I don’t even go to this school, but here’s a picture of the Tiananmen massacre. Tank man was a badass
Better yet, here’s a video. Tank man was completely fine
Tankies denying the existence of atrocities for the sake of political convenience is the reason this thread sprang up.
Tank man was never seen again. It’s assumed he was interrogated and killed or sent to live in a farm upstate full of comrades and comradettes where he could politically demonstrate and frolic his days away.
Source?
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Nope, sounds like you need to go sign up for a tankie instance and leave the rest of us decent people alone instead of invading every space and expecting others to be okay with it.
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I hate these instances too but don’t want to change the instance policies. Pretty soon instance blocking should become a thing and you’ll be able to block them outright.
You know? We are open to discussions and polite exchanges in Hexbear. If there is good faith (and no racism, hate, ableism, homophobia, etc) there are a lot of bridges to build and learn.
But you came to Hexbear to start shit. And now you are resurrecting a 2 days old post because you are angry about not receiving upvotes in our instance.
I want to hear all viewpoints. Don’t talk for me. You can block if you’re against diversity, equity, and inclusion.
I’ve personally found the hexbear locals to be really inclusive, and pleasant to interact with. I couldn’t say I agree with the totality of their political outlooks, but I’ve not found them particularly unreasonable.
What about the Lemmygrad retards trying to claim Tianamen Square didn’t happen? How the hell is that reasonable or okay?
probably best not to call people retards if you want to stay on the high road
Probably best to not try to scrape the bottom of the barrel when defending authoritarians pushing lies and propaganda. Like, if you’re going to go for a red herring, you could at least tone police me; that would at least be more plausible and less petty. Step your game up
i happen to agree with your point, however i don’t think it’s kind to people with a disability to use that disability as an insult
I don’t have an opinion, because I really haven’t interacted with the Lemmygrad folks. Their instance culture just isn’t really my bag, so I don’t find much opportunity or common ground to engage.
EDIT: Never mind, this guy is masquerading as a neutral party to defend tankies, just ignore him.
I don’t think a worldwide general-purpose instance should be removing content, users, or instances based on an opinion of the content. That’s censorship by definition.
Removing content based on an opinion is very different than removing users or instances that are manipulating Lemmy votes/accounts or expressing extreme targeted hate towards an individual.
Please don’t defederate because others have different views. There’s an ocean of difference between right wing fascists advocating for the elimination, enslavement, or oppression of innocent peoples and “tankies” who ultimately want to help people even if they have a different path to get there and some can be dicks about it.
Modern day tankies are indistinguishable from fascists since they shill for fascist shitholes like Russia and China. I don’t care about intent, everyone can lie about it. You can’t lie about outcomes.
I have enough luck to have joint instances that don’t federate with fascists, being they red or not. However, when one of those instances decide to federate with them (not going to happen, but let’s pretend), I’ll protest like you’re doing. And if it doesn’t work, I’ll go to a more inclusive instance.
Don’t get me wrong, I fully understand that a fascist is not the same thing as a communist. But they’re equally despicable.
Don’t get me wrong, I fully understand that a fascist is not the same thing as a communist. But they’re equally despicable.
Fascism is inherently anti-democratic, communism isn’t. I know communism is a shorthand for stalinism, maoism and other totalitarian ideologies that use socialist facade (similar to national socialism) but it’s worth to make an effort not to discredit the whole idea.
Yes, you’re right. Sometimes I think that communism is merely an economic system. But thinking about Stalin, Mao and Il-Sung, whose communist developments where economic, social, democratic and whatnot, it’s sometimes hard to discriminate the noise from the useful information too.
Besides, I can’t understand why communists / tankies are so prone to support dictators. Dictatorship is not exclusive to communism, even capitalism had and has some kind of dictatorships: Hungary, Belarus…
I think capitalism leans into the human trait that wants power. I think communism leans into the human trait that wants to be taken care of. That’s a little off, but you get the idea. In both dictatorship is possible but capitalism has more infighting.
This is pretty toxic
Tankies claiming the Tianamen Square massacre didn’t happen are pretty toxic
You got mad having a debate in one thread and you want the admins to go win it for you by blocking an entire server of different people and communities.
I actually haven’t really debated them and this isn’t the first time I’ve seen them invade an instance. I want them gone because they are spreading blatant propaganda and that should not be allowed on any instance worth its salt
Point in fact, I came here to lemm.ee specifically because it was defederated from them, but now I see the past few days that they’ve been let on again and are now invading threads with pro-CCP astroturfing and inundating the All feed with their propaganda and garbage like they always do. And that shouldn’t be allowed.
Invading the all feed. Thats not how any of this works. And i see you in there arguing with them.
Are these tankies in the room with us right now?
Have you considered hosting your own instance? Its not difficult and you can control exactly who you federate with.
I shouldn’t have to as that costs money. It’s the admin’s job to fix his server, not mine.
If he’s a tankie or a supporter of them, he has a responsibility to us to be honest about that fact instead of allowing them to run roughshod and inundate the instance with propaganda. He KNOWS they don’t belong here but he’s ignoring the problem. That means he either is one of them, supports them or is being taken in by them. And that’s a serious problem that will affect the whole federation, not just this one instance.
If tankies get away with doing that here, they’ll do it to other admins, and poison the whole federation. It’ll be impossible for new instances to flourish without kowtowing to them, and so it has to be stopped here and now with the bigger instances.
EDIT: Welp, clearly I’ll have to, and it will be expensive, but we sane folks have no choice. These piece of shit admins on several different instances have shown us that they clearly don’t care about their users (this is not the first instance I have seen that’s pulled this crap).
Let me see what I can do
How do you foresee tankies poisoning the whole fediverse? Do you find their arguments compelling? It doesn’t even seem like they are trying to make a case, they are just bluntly stating misinformation. If we are going to remove all misinformation then we are going to need paid admins because even at the current scale its a full time job. Or should we only remove certain misinformation? I see blatant misinformation everywhere on the fediverse already and only a tiny percentage is tankie related.
How do you foresee tankies poisoning the whole fediverse?
Because I’ve been watching what has been going on. Instances, big ones, that were previously hard-nosed about being defederated from them have mysteriously let them on their instances again, including this one. I signed up for this instance specifically BECAUSE it banned them, and then all of a sudden, for the past few days, my All feed is inundated with their crap.
That is shady, sus, and wrong. A lot of people came here specifically to get away from tankies and their garbage, and now we’re expected to put up with it because the admins refuse to act and even let them back on? Explain to me how money, blackmail, intimidation, manipulation or abject retardation isn’t involved in that?
Or how it won’t happen to other instances once those cretins get a foothold in a big enough percentage of the fediverse?
It doesn’t even seem like they are trying to make a case, they are just bluntly stating misinformation. If we are going to remove all misinformation then we are going to need paid admins because even at the current scale its a full time job.
The admin already accepts donations so he has no excuse.
I see blatant misinformation everywhere on the fediverse already and only a tiny percentage is tankie related.
You can thank the alt-right dipshits at .world for that, and that’s why I speak out now: unless admins’ feet are held to the fire and they’re held accountable for not protecting their users, it’ll keep getting worse. The admins made an instance they want us to use and accept donations to keep it running. Therefore they have a responsibility toward us they’re not meeting, and it results in dangerous shit like propaganda claiming the Tianamen Square massacre did not happen to run freely when it should not. That is crazy and you know it
I signed up for this instance specifically BECAUSE it banned them
i think you were mistaken. someone correct me if i’m wrong, but i don’t think lemm.ee ever defederated from hexbear, rather, hexbear was defederated from everyone. they quite recently changed that, and lemm.ee users then subsequently joined hexbear communities, which is why you’re now seeing them if you browse by ‘all’.
I meant Lemmygrad, but the admin came to the thread and said “fuck you, I want to boost my numbers up, the tankies are staying” so it doesn’t actually matter. 🤷
I’m sorry if you feel like I was rude to you, that was not my intention. Try to see it from my point of view - there are dozens of people like yourself who are making demands to instance admins in different channels on a more or less weekly basis. “You need to be doing more X”, “You need to stop doing X”, “You need to react faster, we need deadlines for admins”, “You need to stop reacting so hastily”, etc. It’s really exhausting to read and respond to these (conflicting!) demands constantly, I think I am going to have to take a step back and start ignoring such posts in the future.
Please remember that I am a volunteer. Over the past few months, I have put in hundreds of hours of my own time and hundreds of euros of my own money into building up this instance. I understand you feel like I have a responsibility to invest even more time, but I have been very upfront about what I’m prepared to offer in terms of federation - that’s the whole idea behind having a public federation policy, which is on display not just in our sidebar but also in our pinned welcome post. If that policy is not a good fit for you, then that’s fair enough. There are plenty of other instances out there with much more strict policies (I can recommend Beehaw, for example).
By the way, contrary to what you’re claiming, until today, lemm.ee has only ever defederated bot instances + one instance which encourages posting CSAM drawings (+ there is also the decision to not immediately federate with Facebook if that ever becomes a possibility). Sure, I’ve seen some users from other instances who post seriously disturbing content, and these users have been dealt with (through bans and some other methods as well), but so far, I have not seen any federated instance which has users posting bad content at a scale that would only be solvable through defederation. Keep in mind that reports are my main source of seeing such content - I do not go out looking for it on other instances, I never promised to do so and I don’t plan to start any time soon. This is a group effort, and users are expected to help build a community they want to be a part of through reports and/or downvotes.
I joined this instance because it didn’t censor content based on someone’s opinion
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u can always filter instances using connect or sync as u please: there is no need to ask ur admin for defederation ( it is kinda extreme really )
Oh no, there is, because it’s their responsibility as admins and third party apps are not an excuse for them to shirk their responsibility toward their users.
Needing a third party app for that kind of basic functionality defeats the point of Lemmy anyway.
The point of Lemmy is federation. If it doesn’t solve your needs, then it’s your responsibility to make the decision if it’s a healthy ecosystem for you, and if you should keep using it or not.
If the point was federation then defederation wouldn’t be an option.
Defederation is a tool available to instances to protect the greater fediverse
No, the point of Lemmy is to replace Reddit, and if we’re just going to get enabling admins who likely are tankies or being unduly influenced by tankies, then it is pointless.
I will NOT go away or be silenced. You will NOT demand I just put up with it or do the admins’ job for them. It’s their job to protect us from bad faith scumbags looking to fulfill a stupid political agenda and brainwash people.
Insinuating anyone who complains about abuse is the problem for complaining, not the abusive behavior is a tactic bad-faith actors always use to silence legitimate dissent. Are you here in bad faith? Because by doing it you sure sound like it
I think you have some personal problems you want others to solve for you. But I don’t have time to humor emotional outbursts, so I’ll just wish you well and block you.
And this is how we know you’re here in bad faith. Go sign up for Lemmygrad if you love them so damn much
Nah bro, you suck.
-everyone else here
Nah fam, I personally want tankies here and I don’t care if they spread propaganda, astroturf and gang up on anyone they don’t like and generally cause trouble and you complaining makes me feel afraid they’ll be defederated again, go away and stop threatening my friends’ attempts to control popular instances
-You
Lemmy was literally created by “tankies” and all the oldest instances have “tankie” admins.
