• kityr@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Idk, gonna be a very hot take, but I like my beliefs challenged and believe that everyone deserves a voice

    • hare_ware@pawb.social
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      1 year ago

      I agree with this, but some beliefs are well… utterly stupid and not worth reconsidering. It’s a waste of time really.

      • pingveno@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        It’s the deciding which ones are worthless that gets dangerous, particularly when “worthless” involves prison sentences.

        • epicspongee [they/them or he/him]@midwest.social
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          1 year ago

          It’s the deciding which ones are worthless that gets dangerous

          Not making a decision is in and of itself a decision. Saying ‘Nazis deserve a voice because everyone deserves a voice’ removes the voice of minorities because Nazis murder and oppress minorities. There is a decision that has to be made somewhere. Saying ‘everyone deserves a voice and Nazis deserve a platform!’ is limiting the voice of minorities.

          • pingveno@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Sure. In authoritarian states, it’s common to outlaw “lies” about the government, where the government essentially gets to define what a lie is. The United States has its history with such laws in the Alien and Sedition Act in the late 18th century. In more modern times, you see things like Russia outlawing “lies” about the Russo-Ukraine War (including calling it a war). And by lies, I mean anything that does not match Russia’s “everything is fine” narrative. There’s also Poland banning discussion of Nazi collaboration by Poles in 2018.

            I definitely separate that from things like deplatforming. Both people and companies should have freedom of association when it comes to political opinions. They should never be forced to support speech that they disagree with.

          • pingveno@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            None of them. Lemmy instances defederating are the epitome of another freedom, freedom of association. People should be able to choose who and who not to associate with without interference from the government.

    • CurlyWurlies4All@slrpnk.net
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      1 year ago

      Fascism isn’t an ideology that gets defeated in the marketplace of ideas. It’s core belief is enabling a small minority to violently destroy other lives. It’s not worth your consideration.

    • MrEUser@lemmy.ninja
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      1 year ago

      The problem is, this isn’t just a challenge to beliefs. This is the internet. The darkest most depraved shit that can exist… does. People forcing children to do things with animals… I’ll stop there…

      The U.S. constitution supports free speech. Even it has limits. You can’t yell fire in a movie theater and not face the consequences of injuries your speech causes.

      • mc1472@lemmy.fmhy.ml
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        1 year ago

        You in fact can yell fire in a theater without being arrested. It depends on the context (and weather or not there where injuries)

        If the play calls for it and an actor says it. Or more simply if the theater is on fire.

        With speech laws it matters more what the context is to the intended audience than what is specifically said.

    • epicspongee [they/them or he/him]@midwest.social
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      1 year ago

      Idk, gonna be a very hot take, but I like my beliefs challenged and believe that everyone deserves a voice

      Nazis had a voice once, and folks listened to them. And we ended up with the Holocaust.

      Might be controversial but I don’t believe that people who want to murder minorities deserve a voice. I feel like that’s a pretty reasonable bar to set lol.

      • tobor@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Might be controversial but I don’t believe that people who want to murder minorities deserve a voice. I feel like that’s a pretty reasonable bar to set lol.

        It’s not controversial at all. The only people making “controversy” out of it are the ones who are mad they can’t spew hate

      • kityr@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Sure, but did they actually say they want to murder minorities?? I’m yet to see that

      • kityr@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        So you ban the “everyone deserves a voice” types? Because that’s what I said.

          • kityr@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Tf is to sealion?? And I’d like to see the nazis you seem to be unable to not mention in a comment. What I’ve seen is that instances are defederating from exploding-heads. I’ve gone there, seen some edgier memes, some christianity oriented memes, some better memes(those three not being the same memes obv, the Biden ones are pretty unfunny). I’ve seen some honestly sensible policies - instead of banning people for using le bad words, they encourage people who are sensitive to such stuff to block and move on. You seem to call people fucking Nazis for using language that offends you, right?

            • @kityr I tell you not to sealion and then you fucking do it right before me like the dumbest sociopath who’s ever lived

              You whine that everyone deserves a voice, “everyone” includes the fascists

              This isn’t Twitter, this isn’t Reddit, shut your mouth and go tf back to Reddit

              • kityr@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                Would you stop putting labels on people and provide the actual fucking examples that cause you to call people Nazis? Or have you simply taken someone’s word for it? You’re a nazi too btw, why? Because I said so, duh.

                • Lileath@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  1 year ago

                  You do know that words have a meaning, right? If you express the behaviour of a certain group you usually are part of it.

    • Mirshe@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      The world came together in WWII and decided that Nazis didn’t deserve a place at the table. There’s a difference between “let’s decide whose economic policy is more useful now” and “hey I want everyone to have a nice life and these guys think a large chunk of the world doesn’t deserve to live at all.”

    • fiah@discuss.tchncs.de
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      1 year ago

      I like my beliefs challenged

      you like it when “other people should be treated as people as a bare minimum” is getting challenged? because that’s the belief that your average xeno-/homo-/transphobic asshole challenges. Many beliefs I have ought to be challenged on the regular, but not THAT one