How many of you are actually happy that people died? I think the memes are funny and I also agree with everything about the US and what it does to people around the world, but my outlook on the world isn’t such that I’m glad when someone “evens the score”.
Dai-Ichi Kangyo Group - A japanese Keiretsu (monopoly group) (more bastards)
Sidley Austin Brown & Wood - Law firm, primarily serving finance capitalists
Restaurant “Windows on the World” - Randos
WTC2(South)
Verizon - Randos
New York Stock Exchange - Finance capitalists
Morgan Stanley - Finance capitalists
Xerox Corporation - Randos
Keefe, Bruyette & Woods - Finance capitalists
Aon Corporation - Finance capitalist advisory firm
Fiduciary Trust Company International - Finance capitalists
WTC7
Salomon Smith Barney - Finance capitalists
U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission - Finance capitalist regulator
Standard Chartered Bank - Finance capitalists
U.S. Secret Service - Ghouls
My point here is that these were not random innocents that were attacked. This was a direct and targeted attack on the bourgeoisie. This was targeted directly at the ruling class of america and the response that occurred posing it as an “attack on america” was because the bourgeoisie consider themselves to be america and that any attack on them is an attack on the nation. Had this been a bombing against randos it would have been largely ignored, as you see with most bombings of random shopping centres etc. It was because it was an attack on the ruling class that it created such an extensive response from them.
95-97% of the people in a typical high finance office are working class or PMC people. The reason why finance is so lucrative is because it concentrated wealth so effectively. I know this because I was an IT guy in a very very high finance firm a long time ago - the vast majority of people are paper pushing schmucks and excel/PowerPoint contortionists and, like, 3-4 guys are partners or whatever and take the dough. And most of the times they’re going to be at home or on a trip sipping martinis, possibly with clients. Another 4-12 people are going to be sharing a bit of the profits in exchange for overworking the rabble. It’s a bit different nowadays since the quantitative finance people took over a lot of it and they only employ people that could work in tech but yeah traditional finance is mostly a PMC trap. The bourgeoisie is too smart to spend their life in a cubicle. At most there would maybe be the replaceable CEO.
I was gonna say “IT professional for an admittedly evil corporation” is probably a bit too close to home for some PMC folks here to not identify with that position. But at the same time, every job I’ve ever quit has been because I learned about my employer taking on a client that rubbed me the wrong way. No bankers. No defense contractors. No government entities. No finance. Etc.
I know after a certain point it’s arbitrary but it helps me sleep and if I couldn’t code from home I’d just be going for disability, which has ludicrous restrictions in the US.
I never said working class. I said PMC. Ie, not bourgeois. Being a glorified excel formula or a janitor for a parasitic industry does not make you guilty and it’s not equivalent to being a cop or a soldier. The class interests of those respectively are PMC and working class.
Also if you were going to pick a target with the highest percentage of people I don’t feel bad about a skyscraper full of finance ghouls is a pretty good starting point.
Obviously feel bad about all the working class people required for those assholes to have cocaine and gin lunches bit I would say it is, on average, less tragic than most ways 3000 people could die.
It was a terrorist attack on civilians. That’s a tragedy no matter the surrounding context.
The surrounding context can give a different perspective on a tragedy, though. In the context of nurturing the conditions that produced 9/11, creating a civic religion around it, doing horrific war crimes as a response for the past 20 years, and then sweeping under the rug that month during the pandemic where we had a 9/11 every day, I find that humor is the best way to communicate “shit’s crazy, man.”
I don’t think it’s correct or good to accept the idea that the people there were innocents. Some were certainly, but the target was chosen because it was filled with the absolutely NOT innocent american bourgeoisie. Not just because it was a tall building.
The entire point of financial capital is that attacks against things like their headquarters mean nothing. That’s not where they get their power. All you’re going to do is murder replaceable cogs for no reason.
The entire point of financial capital is that attacks against things like their headquarters mean nothing.
They didn’t mean nothing though. That is demonstrably incorrect.
You are also applying a theory that is only supposed to be applied to the context of ending capitalism to the context of an attack that wasn’t intended to do that.
If your goal is to hurt high finance then anticapitalist theories are correct, not salafism.
And of course it didn’t mean nothing, it was a terrorist attack. It just wasn’t any kind of remotely effective attack against finance or some bullshit like that, it was just an attack against the tallest building because what else would you attack with a plane. I’m not the one giving it meaning that the authors of the attack never gave it.
It sucks that some average working class people died that day and in the aftermath years later thanks to the toxic asbestos that capitalists installed on those buildings. My condolences goes out to those people, they didn’t deserve that, they were caught in the middle of the empire’s blowback.
The people that died on 9/11 were victims of US imperialism and it is a tragedy that they died. However 9/11 isn’t about remembering the people that died, it’s about the wound to America’s pride created by the massive spectacle of the twin towers going down on national television. If America gave a shit about people dying we would have have a national day of mourning for Covid every year for at least the next 20 years, there were weeks when America had a 9/11 worth of people dying every single day. They don’t matter because those people were dying in a hospital bed and there wasn’t a spectacular wound to America’s pride.
On the other hand, the people who worked in the CIA and the Pentagon were working directly to advance US imperialism and thus did deserve to get killed.
If we were happy or not, why does that even matter? It doesn’t change anything, we didn’t contribute to it and America caused it through their foreign policy choices. Seems like kind of a pointless line of inquiry.
Only around 2-3k people died there, compared to millions from covid or millions we killed in Iraq and Syria, or tens of thousands dead annually in the US from lack of healthcare. Nobody freaks the fuck out and demands memorials for those deaths, so why are they deemed so much less important? Because it’s not actually about the deaths, that’s a smokescreen. It’s about the wound to America’s collective national ego, its self conception as untouchable master of the universe. That is the actual casualty of 9/11 that people mourn and cry about. Oh, and as another user pointed out, many of those 2-3k dead were cops and finance ghouls so of course we have to worship their sacrifice or whatever because Americans are bootlickers
It’s pretty tragic for sure but what the usa did (and continues to do) afterwards is so fucking abhorrently evil and fucked up that I find it hard to care. It wasn’t treated as a tragedy, it was another reason for imperialism with pretty much full support from everyone in the country. It just makes it really hard even give a small shit and it showed clearly how deeply unwell Americans are.
How many of you are actually happy that people died? I think the memes are funny and I also agree with everything about the US and what it does to people around the world, but my outlook on the world isn’t such that I’m glad when someone “evens the score”.
I think it’s worth correcting this. The people of the WTC were not just random innocent people. The tenants list of the towers was:
WTC1(North)
Port Authority of New York and New Jersey - Randos
Marsh & McLennan Companies - Huge finance capitalist firm
Bank of America
Cantor Fitzgerald - Huge finance capitalist firm
Dai-Ichi Kangyo Group - A japanese Keiretsu (monopoly group) (more bastards)
Sidley Austin Brown & Wood - Law firm, primarily serving finance capitalists
Restaurant “Windows on the World” - Randos
WTC2(South)
Verizon - Randos
New York Stock Exchange - Finance capitalists
Morgan Stanley - Finance capitalists
Xerox Corporation - Randos
Keefe, Bruyette & Woods - Finance capitalists
Aon Corporation - Finance capitalist advisory firm
Fiduciary Trust Company International - Finance capitalists
WTC7
Salomon Smith Barney - Finance capitalists
U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission - Finance capitalist regulator
Standard Chartered Bank - Finance capitalists
U.S. Secret Service - Ghouls
My point here is that these were not random innocents that were attacked. This was a direct and targeted attack on the bourgeoisie. This was targeted directly at the ruling class of america and the response that occurred posing it as an “attack on america” was because the bourgeoisie consider themselves to be america and that any attack on them is an attack on the nation. Had this been a bombing against randos it would have been largely ignored, as you see with most bombings of random shopping centres etc. It was because it was an attack on the ruling class that it created such an extensive response from them.
95-97% of the people in a typical high finance office are working class or PMC people. The reason why finance is so lucrative is because it concentrated wealth so effectively. I know this because I was an IT guy in a very very high finance firm a long time ago - the vast majority of people are paper pushing schmucks and excel/PowerPoint contortionists and, like, 3-4 guys are partners or whatever and take the dough. And most of the times they’re going to be at home or on a trip sipping martinis, possibly with clients. Another 4-12 people are going to be sharing a bit of the profits in exchange for overworking the rabble. It’s a bit different nowadays since the quantitative finance people took over a lot of it and they only employ people that could work in tech but yeah traditional finance is mostly a PMC trap. The bourgeoisie is too smart to spend their life in a cubicle. At most there would maybe be the replaceable CEO.
This argument is like trying to claim cops are working class.
I was gonna say “IT professional for an admittedly evil corporation” is probably a bit too close to home for some PMC folks here to not identify with that position. But at the same time, every job I’ve ever quit has been because I learned about my employer taking on a client that rubbed me the wrong way. No bankers. No defense contractors. No government entities. No finance. Etc.
I know after a certain point it’s arbitrary but it helps me sleep and if I couldn’t code from home I’d just be going for disability, which has ludicrous restrictions in the US.
I never said working class. I said PMC. Ie, not bourgeois. Being a glorified excel formula or a janitor for a parasitic industry does not make you guilty and it’s not equivalent to being a cop or a soldier. The class interests of those respectively are PMC and working class.
so everyone deserved 911
No. America Deserved 9/11
The people who died didn’t deserve to die but America deserved 9/11 does this make sense?
Also if you were going to pick a target with the highest percentage of people I don’t feel bad about a skyscraper full of finance ghouls is a pretty good starting point.
Obviously feel bad about all the working class people required for those assholes to have cocaine and gin lunches bit I would say it is, on average, less tragic than most ways 3000 people could die.
Also worth remembering the plane that hit the pentagon and the one that was trying for the white house, both of which are fair game imo.
What exactly do you think Finance employees do? You’ve completely dehumanized them
deleted by creator
It was a terrorist attack on civilians. That’s a tragedy no matter the surrounding context.
The surrounding context can give a different perspective on a tragedy, though. In the context of nurturing the conditions that produced 9/11, creating a civic religion around it, doing horrific war crimes as a response for the past 20 years, and then sweeping under the rug that month during the pandemic where we had a 9/11 every day, I find that humor is the best way to communicate “shit’s crazy, man.”
See also: school shootings, suicide.
I don’t think it’s correct or good to accept the idea that the people there were innocents. Some were certainly, but the target was chosen because it was filled with the absolutely NOT innocent american bourgeoisie. Not just because it was a tall building.
https://hexbear.net/comment/3935238
The vast majority of people there were PMC at worst, not bourgeois.
If you don’t consider the literal headquarters of finance capital to be guilty you are not judging things correctly.
The entire point of financial capital is that attacks against things like their headquarters mean nothing. That’s not where they get their power. All you’re going to do is murder replaceable cogs for no reason.
They didn’t mean nothing though. That is demonstrably incorrect.
You are also applying a theory that is only supposed to be applied to the context of ending capitalism to the context of an attack that wasn’t intended to do that.
If your goal is to hurt high finance then anticapitalist theories are correct, not salafism.
And of course it didn’t mean nothing, it was a terrorist attack. It just wasn’t any kind of remotely effective attack against finance or some bullshit like that, it was just an attack against the tallest building because what else would you attack with a plane. I’m not the one giving it meaning that the authors of the attack never gave it.
It sucks that some average working class people died that day and in the aftermath years later thanks to the toxic asbestos that capitalists installed on those buildings. My condolences goes out to those people, they didn’t deserve that, they were caught in the middle of the empire’s blowback.
The people that died on 9/11 were victims of US imperialism and it is a tragedy that they died. However 9/11 isn’t about remembering the people that died, it’s about the wound to America’s pride created by the massive spectacle of the twin towers going down on national television. If America gave a shit about people dying we would have have a national day of mourning for Covid every year for at least the next 20 years, there were weeks when America had a 9/11 worth of people dying every single day. They don’t matter because those people were dying in a hospital bed and there wasn’t a spectacular wound to America’s pride.
On the other hand, the people who worked in the CIA and the Pentagon were working directly to advance US imperialism and thus did deserve to get killed.
What do you call 2,000 dead businessmen? A good start.
All the planes should have hit the pentagon
One plane for each side would have been cool
If we were happy or not, why does that even matter? It doesn’t change anything, we didn’t contribute to it and America caused it through their foreign policy choices. Seems like kind of a pointless line of inquiry.
Only around 2-3k people died there, compared to millions from covid or millions we killed in Iraq and Syria, or tens of thousands dead annually in the US from lack of healthcare. Nobody freaks the fuck out and demands memorials for those deaths, so why are they deemed so much less important? Because it’s not actually about the deaths, that’s a smokescreen. It’s about the wound to America’s collective national ego, its self conception as untouchable master of the universe. That is the actual casualty of 9/11 that people mourn and cry about. Oh, and as another user pointed out, many of those 2-3k dead were cops and finance ghouls so of course we have to worship their sacrifice or whatever because Americans are bootlickers
I get the US for what they deserved, but a lot of working class people died for the errors of the imperial military complex
It’s pretty tragic for sure but what the usa did (and continues to do) afterwards is so fucking abhorrently evil and fucked up that I find it hard to care. It wasn’t treated as a tragedy, it was another reason for imperialism with pretty much full support from everyone in the country. It just makes it really hard even give a small shit and it showed clearly how deeply unwell Americans are.