I feel like this ultimately isn’t the right question because from what I’ve seen they’re not really one monolithic group with like one specific issue, character flaw, or trait.
Lots of neurodivergent people have difficulty dating and so do misogynist pigs and so do bigots and so do people with despicable political views.
I think the big problem is that these different disparate groups are coming together and being treated as one group and trying to come up with one solitary reason why they all have trouble dating. That’s just led to a terrifying hybridization of all the worst aspects being spread throughout the group like a plague.
for me personally, I have 0 self confidence, and also I’d literally rather fucking die than make a girl uncomfortable by asking her out in an a bad situation/ way, and to top it all off I’ve only had like 1 single crush in the 20+ years I’ve been alive that I would consider asking out anyways, I’ve pretty much accepted that I will probably die without a partner (and that is totally ok!). Im way more afraid of dying without a sense of community tbh.
Hi me, how’s it going?
Pretty horrible as I’m forced to watch genocide unfold and all i can do is go yell and scream at protests rn
I think this is a very, very complex multi-faceted issue worthy of a lengthy discussion, and sits at the intersection of politics, class struggle, psychology, history, neoliberal ideology, Christian elements of the Global North, and various fears and unreasonable expectations from many different points of view. I can give my perspective:
“Biologically” speaking, I’m a dude, assigned male at birth. I had my vasectomy done several days ago.
Intellectually and “spiritually” speaking, I identify myself as “partially non-binary”. It varies on any given day, but I would say I’m roughly 60-90 percent male, 30-40 percent feminine, and 40-70 percent or 100 percent non-binary.
I’m also Latino and Bisexual, my preferences roughly 70-80 percent prefer women.
I was born and raised in a very strong Catholic household DFW/NRH Texas, and even though its a shithole, for now I consider it home.
This next statement might raise some flags, and it pains me that I ever identified this way or have sympathies, but I believe it’s worth stating: I’m a former Incel.
I think that people are very quick to demonize Incels, but it isn’t entirely unearned. Many incels are/were extremely shitty people: Elliot Rodger, Alek Minassian, Nikolas-Cruz, Chris-Harper Mercer, George Sodini, I could go on. And many incels looked up to these fucking pricks. For my worth, I always viewed these monsters as incomprehensibly evil douchebags. Speaking from my own personal experience (I’m not a scientist that can provide actual numbers or data), the vast majority of incels (or at least many of them) aren’t inherently misogynistic, racist, violent, abusive or selfish assholes.
Most of the incels I met or talked to were just fairly normal people, and often of non-white descent and backgrounds, they were just distraught and lost, and many of us felt alienated from human or modern society, and most of us would rather hurt ourselves and believe we deserve it rather than hurt or murder anyone else.
I am moderately on the autistic spectrum, and I also suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder, Bipolar 2 and Impulse Control Disorder, and anxiety, so my life is a living hell.
Due to some weird combination of my heavily Catholic upbringing and very conservative area, and heavily taboo concepts regarding sex, intimacy, love, romance, emotional maturity, dating, and societal expectations and sex differences, I honestly just always struggled with friendships and dating. I feel like since I was born, I’ve been and always will be a nuisance and a waste of resources, and even when I try and reach out, I’m constantly creep-shamed for things that other “normal” people get away with on an hourly basis. Maybe there is some truth in having a persecution complex, but my entire life I’ve genuinely felt singled-out for very little or no reason, and way more to an extent than others for the same or worse cases of being friendly, sexual jokes, being simultaneously too open and not open about my feelings, having extremely high and low self-worth. “It’s not a persecution complex if I really am singled out” is how I put it.
Coupled with discrimination towards my race, my appearance, my often varying weight, I feel like people almost never give me a “fair shake”. I don’t feel anyone owes me anything, just basic decency and understanding.
Being social and meeting others or knowing how to express humor, pain, excitement, love or happiness in ways that are socially appropriate and being bombastic without being creepy or “spastic” is such fucking bullshit, so for a while, and still to an extent, I just gave up.
This explains so much of my life, my psychology, my history. I don’t have a magic answer or phrase, I just hope others draw from this experience. Capitalist alienation and demonization of outsiders is a major problem in the world. I was fucking outcast even from the other outcasts! And yes, I think the alt-reich and men’s rights “activists” misuse these terms, but you can’t convince me whatsoever that “creep-shaming” or “lookism” aren’t real issues at all, and I don’t think they are talked about nearly enough.
I also know that and I think society should admit that yes, men, masculine and trans-masculine people also are discriminated against, almost as often and almost to the extent as women and AFAB people are, though likely not anywhere near as much pervasively them, and I understand that women are definitely the more oppressed sex.
I also know that and I think society should admit that yes, men, masculine and trans-masculine people also are discriminated against, almost as often and almost to the extent as women and AFAB people are, though likely not anywhere near as much pervasively them, and I understand that women are definitely the more oppressed sex.
Yeah the secret about the damaging effects of toxic masculinty and the partiarchy is that it doesnt even benefit men, its what is sending them to war, keeping them lonely and isolated and ensuring they will never make deep connections with other people.
YES! This is exactly it, you perfectly described it.
There are some ways in which men benefit straightforwardly from privilege but not every man can reify those benefits successfully and men would eventually be better off with patriarchy dismantled as they could access other privileges that are currently out of reach for everyone due to the limitations of our society.
In case you’re unaware of the term, “purity culture” seems to describe some of your experience. I think the ‘Straight white American Jesus’ podcast talks about that, but I haven’t listened in a while (they’re libs).
Patriarchy and capitalism hurt everyone regardless of if they’re technically the oppressor in that relationship.
Based on the people I know who are like this (both male, female, heterosexual and homosexual). They don’t get out much and don’t meet new people. Another big reason is having high expectations of others and not being able to compromise while at the same time having a lot of insecurities.
If you are reading this and cannot get a date:
- Get out and meet people. If you are shy go somewhere outside of your area/town where no one knows you, that way if you embarass yourself you’ll never see them again.
- Try to make more friends first, it will increase your social circle and boost your confidence.
- Don’t be afraid to be cringe. It’s your right as a human to be a little bit cringe as a treat.
- Still not sure where to meet people? Join a political activist group.
- Lighten up, be positive and have fun! People can tell when someone is stressed/miserable and no one wants to be around a bad vibe.
Don’t try to get dates in a political activist group
Absolutely not, but you should meet people. Build confidence and social skills.
That’s a really good way to make other people extremely uncomfortable
In what way would it make someone feel uncomfortable if you were to try and socialise with them (in a platonic way)?
I misread what they wrote. In a platonic way it fine but under no circumstances should an org be someone’s personal dating site
I don’t think you should shy away from dating in political activism, but there are many obstacles and things to be aware of and shit, and yeah, don’t close yourself off but don’t treat it as a dating scene.
I see no way in which that wouldn’t just make the whole thing more uncomfortable for people
Lenin met his wife while organizing. And goodness forbid that people ever feel uncomfortable. Uncomfortable is part of life, though its different when people’s safety could be at risk.
sure, when people are in a relationship the main issue is just other people’s discomfort, but i have found that the real problems lie in the breakup that happens. i have seen entire organizations crumble over a single nasty breakup because of the ensuing polarization that happens when that drama gets in the way of all the professionalism and organizing. for that reason, i’ve always found it bad practice and a little selfish to date within orgs.
That type of experience definitely sucks, I’m sorry that’s happened.
Obviously feeling uncomfortable for that is different than for organizing. The quickest way to be viewed as a fuck-up is to attempt to date within an organization (regardless if that is activism or work or something else)
I think the problem lies in the mentality of “getting” a date. It seems like something that occurs automatically and without one’s intervention. At least I used to (implicitly) think so, until I figured it’s as easy as making a plan for the day and asking someone out to accompany you.
This is it.
Never learned to flirt
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This is a question that really covers a large scope across multiple cultures and countries depending on the commenters. I don’t know a whole lot of people like this because our community is so tight-knit and there’s always some kind of community wide event happening every other day. The ones that tend to be take longer than the others usually are neurodivergent or introverted. Introversion doesn’t really mesh well in our heavily extraverted culture, but they manage to meet someone and settle down by their early 30’s or so.
Really? In their early 30s? Usually how?
“A relationship is the price you pay for anticipating one.”
Wait, what?
Going into friendships anticipating romance is a good way to make sure romance never happens. People are wise to that. Just focus on building platonic relationships and allow romance to develop from them. Works for me, anyway.
I dunno. I used to use dating apps, friends groups, and go out to clubs. If all else fails, there’s speed dating.
I will admit that it is hard. And even more so if you’re physically fit or outgoing. But it’s not impossible.
-at first i was shy, didn’t have themes for conversation and bad self-esteem
-after that, i tried to be a PUA, and i failed to build my harem even when i talked with more women and i was funnier in those two years than the previous rest of my life, i had some little moments, but basically i failed to “brainwash” women with NLP to love me
i don’t know the reason after all that. maybe i’m a unlucky man, because (i think) i’m not ugly, i developed a good size of social skills, i’m more extroverted and i can be funny. so i can’t help myself of direct my anger to all the people who talks about “just develop more social skillz, bro!” it’s not enough, i’m telling you
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