Source.

On Nathan J. Robinson. I learnt yesterday that he didn’t do any union-busting, and the departing writers/editors who stirred up so much drama on left-Twitter were lying all along. This article by Yasmin Nair gives the full breakdown with a lot of receipts.

I was linked this article by @HarryLime@hexbear.net in his post yesterday, where NJR was vindicated on calling out Fetterman being terrible back in 2022. The replies to that tweet are filled with people dunking on Nathan, while the quote tweets, almost all from the past couple days, are filled with everyone apologizing.

It’s pretty interesting to see.

I’m currently going through his other tweets. So far, NJR seems like a pretty decent guy with a lot of good analysis’, completely different from the caricature I made up in my mind from memes and tweets.

It’s quite strange. I used to read Current Affairs before the “incident” and even listened to the podcast. I liked everyone there, including Nathan. I guess that’s why when I heard what happened, and saw in real time all the people I liked fighting with each other (well, all the people I recognised from the articles and the podcast dunking Nathan), I felt betrayed in a sense. I remember writing an email or filling out a form or something similar that the writers who’d been “fired” had set up. Maybe I donated money too, but I don’t remember that. If I did, it would be a small amount.

And I stopped my subscription to Current Affairs, changing it to Jacobin instead.

There was a lot of trolling that went on. I don’t think I ever tweeted at him personally, but that doesn’t matter. I know I consumed the tweets and posts (even here and on the subreddit back when it existed!)

Why? For me, I guess, it was a sense of justice mixed with betrayal: here was a man who headed an org I respected who had betrayed these principals we all hold dear, and in doing so hurt these other people who I also like. And the only power I have in enacting “justice” is in ridiculing him a little bit.

But even then, that never achieved anything. I won’t say “dunking” as a whole is useless. It can be useful in bringing people together and giving us a sense of camaraderie, but only when it’s against deserving subjects - billionaires and the like. It’s like part of forming an identity around common things we hate.

But… completely divorced from any other forms of unification, any other ways to group and coalesce, all that left is a weak identity that does nothing but dunk for no other purpose. Thats, I guess, what happened to me.

None of us here became leftists for the purpose of trolling others. Using it to hurt and bully others is what people on the right do, even if they consider themselves apolitical sometimes.

But dunking on Nathan…became that. Didn’t it? In the article, Yasmin Nair points to real world examples of people bullying him. I imagine they did so out of a similar feeling of “betrayal”, and sought “justice” too. But how would that achieve it? It wouldn’t. It can’t.

This happened because we separated our actual politics - leftism - from our online activities. Maybe not all of us, but I’d wage at least quite a few. If Current Affairs had failed in the years between the Incident and the start of Jan, 2024, I would’ve thought “sad this happened, but serves him right” with no thought to the actual damage that would’ve done to the real world impacts of losing a magazine like that to left politics.

That’s a failing on my part. It’s a failing that I let my personal grievances with Nathan (Ill-informed as I now know) shut me off completely from Current Affairs as a whole, with all the great writers who work and publish there, then and now.

I remember there was an effort, early on in this site’s history, of making this place more than just a place to shitpost online - to actually be used to organise. It failed, partly because we were small and partly because we were too resistant. There were also onboarding efforts to allow us to grow to mitigate that first problem, but it ran into the second one, our resistance to change, and, well, here we are today. Is there anyone here who remembers those days? What a mess. Since then, a lot of original people who created and did the heavy lifting of maintaining this site, including creatively, left.

I remember enquiring sometime ago, maybe 2022, maybe 2023, about what happened to the writers who left Current Affairs. Have they found other jobs? Where are they working, publishing, podcasting? I wanted to support them. I didn’t figure it out. Some have now deleted their Twitter, others have privated their accounts. Maybe it’s for the best.

Maybe things could’ve been different if we could’ve grown and changed and been the place for atleast left-adjacent people to come by the time Reddit exploded and people started to migrate to Lemmy. Who knows? That’s a different world, and probably also a different post. But at least we could learn something from our mistakes. I am trying to from mine. —

This went in directions I wasn’t expecting. I just typed out my thoughts as they came to me. You don’t really have to read it.

TLDR: “I’m sorry, Nathan” and maybe dunking, without any thing else, is not good.

  • a_blanqui_slate [none/use name, any]@hexbear.net
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    9 months ago

    Should posts making fun of NJR for dressing like a cross between Colonel Sanders and the Joker be banned for sectarianism?

    Sectarianism would be favoring one ideology over another. I’m making a point about messaging and aesthetics, which transcends ideological lines.

    • zed_proclaimer [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      9 months ago

      Should posts making fun of NJR for dressing like a cross between Colonel Sanders and the Joker be banned for sectarianism?

      No, because social democrats aren’t leftists so NJR is fair game

      I’m making a point about messaging and aesthetics, which transcends ideological lines.

      Hilarious you say this here and other comments in this thread defending NJR are mad that we criticized him “based on his vibe”. Like which is it? Are we allowed to call obvious bad vibe dorks what they are, or are we supposed to never be mean to your dork parasocial friends?

      • a_blanqui_slate [none/use name, any]@hexbear.net
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        9 months ago

        Are we allowed to call obvious bad vibe dorks what they are, or are we supposed to never be mean to your dork parasocial friends?

        You can do whatever you want, but don’t whinge at me when no one gives you the deference you inexplicably think you deserve for your “trenchant analysis”.

    • voight [he/him, any]@hexbear.net
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      9 months ago

      the plain weird verging on creepy that a lot of leftists seem to prefer

      This is just a self-own framed as some kind of tastemaking observation. I think it would be really cool to somehow be able to unpack the whole population online and offline that gave you this impression.

      I think of a sexy ass dude with a hammer, or a guy in the jungle with a gun who can transcend death. Sorry you have to think of Twitter or NJR.

      • a_blanqui_slate [none/use name, any]@hexbear.net
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        I didn’t say “marxists seem to prefer” or “demSocs seem to prefer” or “anarchists seem to prefer”. That would have been sectarianism.

        I’m making a criticism of a broad movement I’m a part of (leftism) for conisdering it more ‘acceptable’ to engage in weird/creepy things like post-revolution revenge fantasies ( “wall” “gulag” etc) than it is to do eccentric things like wear an cravat.

        • voight [he/him, any]@hexbear.net
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          9 months ago

          Maybe, just maybe, we need people who want to put Jeff Bezos into a cage with a malfunctioning Fulfillment Center robot arm more than we need your cravat? You ever think of that?

          • a_blanqui_slate [none/use name, any]@hexbear.net
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            Talking a big game on twitter about wanting to put Jeff Bezos in a cage and wearing a cravat are both individual aesthetic decisions with no material impact. So I’m not sure why the former is ‘based’ and the second is ‘cringe’. Maybe latent homophobia? Beats me.

            • voight [he/him, any]@hexbear.net
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              Like I mean that ecologically. The creation of neoclassical economics combined with social democracy has completely obliterated class consciousness to the point people are being scolded for supporting “indiscriminate pirate attacks” because they could be raising big mac prices

            • voight [he/him, any]@hexbear.net
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              9 months ago

              The reason you think people need your advice about dropping the adventurism for the cravat is because those are the only two elements of your environment. The world may never recover from the creation of social democracy

                  • zed_proclaimer [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                    9 months ago

                    Ever notice how many users of this site are totally fine with chauvinist social democrats who attack the USSR, attack China, attack DPRK and want free healthcare? These users don’t outright claim these positions (they know they’ll get jumped on) they instead just come out of the woodwork once a fortnight to defend people who hold them and play word games and use emotional/aesthetic appeals instead of outright defending the succ dem worldview. They did this for “the squad”. They did this for Bernie. They do this for NJR. They do this for “the Iron Front” anti-communists, 3-arrow types. They do it for “Rojava” American airbase. They do it for Chomsky. They literally cannot stop themselves from defending social imperialists while claiming they aren’t social imperialists themselves, but that we are just “creepy” for disagreeing.

                    Ew violent revolution? What are you, Creepies? You want revenge on the rich? You are a serial killer!

              • a_blanqui_slate [none/use name, any]@hexbear.net
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                The reason you think people need your advice about dropping the adventurism for the cravat

                What adventurism? We haven’t got any adventurism. The closest we’ve got to adventurism is a adventurism facade on shitposting.

              • a_blanqui_slate [none/use name, any]@hexbear.net
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                The problem with aristocrats isn’t that they drop their r’s or wear cravats, so who cares if NJR wants to dress as a caricature of one? He’s not making us look any more ridiculous than the people posting arcane drilbits on twitter in the Chris Hayes mentions.

                • voight [he/him, any]@hexbear.net
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                  Well maybe I missed that being the crux of this thread, because it sure looks a whole lot like people directly quoting him and the claims against him. There was passing mention of the outfits. I have been defending NJR’s takes for actually BEING BETTER THAN SOME OF THE “PRO-PALESTINE PEOPLE” WHO RUN WITH THE “HOUTHI PIRATES” NARRATIVE BUT ADD “IT’S GOOD ACTUALLY” I don’t care about the cravat. He also sucks and is a socdem and the twitter people who like him severely overestimate how funny they are.

                  I care about you thinking people wanting to kill their boss is creepy. It’s a sign you have several senses and breathe oxygen, in most cases, like food service. Especially if you have a slappable ass like I do!

                  • a_blanqui_slate [none/use name, any]@hexbear.net
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                    9 months ago

                    care about you thinking people wanting to kill their boss is creepy.

                    That is creepy. Hating your boss isn’t creepy. Working for a system where they aren’t in a position to make your life miserable constantly isn’t creepy. But if immediately jumping to “this sucks, wish I could kill him” and harboring consistent, violent thoughts directed at another person isn’t creepy, what exactly is creepy supposed to mean?

        • voight [he/him, any]@hexbear.net
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          Lol, sure, spend all your time defending people who talk like TotalBiscuit style youtubers and clutching your pearls at references to revolutionary violence against people who are directly responsible for changes that have horrible effects on our lives, like hours and layoffs. Maybe your instinct that those people are “cringe” is not in fact rooted in your need to spread revolutionary consciousness?

        • zed_proclaimer [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          I’m making a criticism of a broad movement I’m a part of (leftism) for conisdering it more ‘acceptable’ to engage in weird/creepy things like post-revolution revenge fantasies ( “wall” “gulag” etc)

          If you don’t think walls or gulags will be required you’re out to lunch

          • a_blanqui_slate [none/use name, any]@hexbear.net
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            9 months ago

            If you don’t think walls or gulags will be required you’re out to lunch

            If you think anyone talking a big game about walls and gulags online is gonna have any role in organizing any of that, you’re on like 15 layers of useless speculation.

    • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      9 months ago

      The best example of sectarianism surrounding this guy is “he has anarchist critiques of AES states, therefore he’s not a True Leftist like me and is actually a fascist.”

      If some anarchist on here said they had some big problems with the USSR or DPRK, you could argue with them over it, but you wouldn’t be allowed to be insulting and dismissive the way people are to this guy.

      • zed_proclaimer [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        You are incorrectly paraphrasing me, and I know it’s me you are vague posting about. Why don’t you quote me directly so people can see my actual arguments and words instead of you twisting them?

        NJR is not an anarchist. He’s a social democrat. I didn’t call him a fascist, I called him a “social fascist” which has a specific meaning and is its own term - and it correctly applies to all social democrats in the imperial core who don’t prioritize their imperialist state as the primary problem to overcome

        • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          9 months ago

          Why don’t you quote me directly

          “Debate me debate me debatemedebatemedebateme DEEEBATEEEE MEEEEEE!!!1!11@!!”

          logout

          Fascists should be shot. If you think fucking Nathan Robinson needs to be shot, you’re out of your goddamn mind.

          • zed_proclaimer [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            I think the population of United States of America is about 50-60% ideologically fascist, and I think they should be re-educated not shot, unless they commit a serious crime or engage in counter-revolutionary activity. Social Fascist is actually the left-most portion of fascist America. Liberals are centrist fascists and chuds are Rightwing fascists. They’re all imperialists, which means they’re fascists.

            Fascism is not only a military-technical category. Fascism is the bourgeoisie’s fighting organisation that relies on the active support of Social-Democracy. Social-Democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism. There is no ground for assuming that the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of Social-Democracy

            NJR is a moderate imperialist. Liberals and chuds are extremist imperialists.

              • zed_proclaimer [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                The country he lives in and pays taxes to is currently the most imperialist nation on Earth, the center of global capital, and at war with the DPRK. This is what he has to say about the DPRK in a Current Affairs article in his supposedly “socialist” publication. He admires the aesthetics of DPRK (who wouldn’t), but then repeats Liberal western talking points attacking the Socialist nation his country is at war with currently.

                https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/04/attempting-to-understand-north-korea

                If they do believe it, we should be very worried, according to B.R. Myers’s The Cleanest Race. Myers says that the DPRK’s governing ideology has been misunderstood by the United States. We think of it as “authoritarian communist,” thanks to its all-powerful state and various Stalinist trappings. But Myers says this is misleading: The regime is closer in character to fascism, because of its racism and nationalism (Stalinists have many unappealing qualities, but they do not build their ideology around race and nation). The communist elements, Myers says, are window dressing. Even Kim Il-Sung himself knew little about Marxism, and he dismayed the Russians when they quizzed him on it. And strictly speaking, the regime operates as a monarchy. Myers says that “socialism” is not the right term, because it doesn’t describe the self-image we see in the state’s propaganda, which heavily emphasizes the purity of North Koreans and their need for a protective parent-leader.

                Absolute anti-communist imperialist horseshit. Reactionary nonsense. He should be ashamed of repeating this. This is who he is quoting and platforming by the way. A contributing editor to The Wallstreet Journal, The Atlantic, New York Times.

                Brian Reynolds Myers (born 1963), usually cited as B. R. Myers, is an American professor of international studies at Dongseo University in Busan, South Korea, best known for his writings on North Korean propaganda. He is a contributing editor for The Atlantic and an opinion columnist for The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal. Myers is the author of Han Sǒrya and North Korean Literature (Cornell, 1994), A Reader’s Manifesto (Melville House, 2002), The Cleanest Race (Melville House, 2010), and North Korea’s Juche Myth (Sthele Press, 2015).

                Myers was born in New Jersey, near Fort Dix. His mother is British, and his father was a U.S. Army officer from Pennsylvania who served in South Korea as a military chaplain, often helping out local orphans.

                Myers spent his childhood in Bermuda and his high school youth in apartheid-era South Africa, and received graduate education in West Berlin during the early 1980s, occasionally visiting East Germany. He earned an MA degree in Soviet studies at Ruhr University (1989) and a PhD degree in Korean studies with a focus on North Korean literature at the University of Tübingen (1992). Myers subsequently taught German in Japan and worked for a Mercedes-Benz liaison office in Beijing during the mid-1990s.

                Lmao, this is who you are getting in bed with when you get in bed with these credentialist nerds. Went to school in Apartheid South Africa, Nazi West Germany and then now is a hardline anti-DPRK anti-communist. Some white guy involved in colonizing Korea and a contributing editor of The Atlantic. Back to NJR:

                For example, personally, I find Myers’ explanation appealing. If I’m being honest, though, that’s probably partly because it lumps Kim Jong Un in with right-wing fascists, and distances him from the left. I’ve always felt that “socialists” have no more responsibility for dictatorships that call themselves socialist than democratic republicans have for, well, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. Since I oppose dictatorships universally, pointing out that there have been “leftist” dictatorships poses no actual challenge to my politics. Instinctively, though, I confess that I’d feel relieved if Kim Jong Un was lumped in with the right rather than the left.

                Oh damn dude that’s just social fascism. Like I said. Spreading imperialist intrigue.

                That’s not to say that patriotism is coerced rather than sincere. A lot of it surely is sincere. Chol-hwan Kang, in The Aquariums of Pyongyang, recalls that as a child, he sincerely saw Kim Il-Sung as a kind of Santa Claus, who neither urinated nor defecated

                Yes they’re just brainwashed ants who believe mythical stupid things. He’s repeating anti-communsit bullshit from South Korean versions of the National Inquirer to his audience of Western social chauvinists, re-inforced their ingrained racist anti-communist hatred of the Korean people that they recently genocided.

                There is a coherent aesthetic to many of them, and Bonner draws attention to the repeated use of the country’s “traditional motifs and color palette.” It’s no surprise that that should be the case, since authoritarian rule provides an easy shortcut to aesthetic consistency.

                Yes, the authoritarian rule. That’s the only reason these inscrutable asiatics have beautiful design and architecture, the only reason they can coordinate as a society and remove ads and other eyesores.

                That beauty may have been built on a mountain of human suffering, but, if we’re being honest, so have many of the world’s aesthetic treasures.

                Yes, Pyongyang is like the Egyptian monuments of old, and KJU is an emperor that sits atop it.

                Just shut the fuck up Liberals goddamn this nerd sucks. BOOOOOOO

                • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  che-laugh I ask for your best example of him supporting imperialism and you lead with “he lives in the U.S.”? Seriously?

                  Then you follow it with… a bad take on the nature of the DPRK’s government, but still lacking any support for the U.S. on the peninsula? You got nothing.

                  • zed_proclaimer [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                    no I said he called DPRK “red fascist” as an American, who have killed millions of Koreans and are at war with them. That is social imperialism. Learn to read or learn to argue in good faith, this is pathetic. Servile succ apologist nonsense. You should be ashamed.