I am trying to choose between buying a Nintendo Switch or a Nintendo DS.
This may not be the perfect community to ask - but I can’t think of any better place.
The reason for my question: I don’t want to own obsolete hardware in 10 years. Lately most games seem to depend on a “phone home” feature, which is not really an issue for my pc because it is always connected, but a console is something I want to play always and everywhere.
I already did some searching and found that games can be played offline fine (most of them, some exceptions are there like Multiplayer and Mortal Kombat), but:
- There is something like the paid Nintendo Online Account. I am not planning on having a paid account. How much of the system depends on the account?
- Can I have progression in a game (let’s say: one of the Zelda franchise) and will my Wife and Kids all have their own progression, without having to pay for X accounts?
- People who own a Switch, let’s take this to extremes, do you feel like in 20 years from now you can still do the same things on your hardware as you can do now? (No multiplayer is fine)
Also, feel free to rant about “paying is not owning”, the state of the gaming industry is horrible.
edit: Thank you all for the comments! I don’t post a lot, so it was kinda overwhelming :)
For clarity:
- I meant I want to “buy for life” (not really “life”, but, if the hardware survives you can play on pre-internet consoles forever - you can even buy more games if you can find them)
- I want to buy a physical copy of the games, not download them
I’ve decided to go with the Nintendo DS for now (I have a DSi - this week I bought a couple of games, 2nd hand). Reasons:
- I already had it
- Joycons on switch. Multiple people mentioned having problems with them. I don’t count on being able to buy them new in 10 years, meaning they will have to last.
Again: thank you all for the useful input!
A steam deck can run all the games those two can and it runs Linux which means it will probably never be obsolete
It’s pretty repair friendly as well.
The battery is a notable exemption from this (as is the display), which is also the most likely to fail multiple times over a span of 20 years. It’s certainly doable, just not as simple as swapping out the thumb sticks for example.
Isn‘t the battery simply mounted with sticky tape and thanks to the case being screwed in still fessibly replaceable by the user?
Check this iFixit guide: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Steam+Deck+Battery+Replacement/149070
It’s listed as “Difficult” and “2-4 hours”.
In comparison, the iPhone 15 Pro battery replacement guide is listed as “Moderate” and “1-2 hours”.
One of the problems with the Deck’s battery is that it’s glued in place so well you have to heat up the adhesive, and applying heat close to a battery is something you have to be quite careful about.
sticky tape is the bane of battery repair.
you gotta destroy it to remove it sometimes.
Acetone and/or floss (“sawing” through the glue under the battery). That’s how iFixIt instructed to remove a battery from a 2016 MacBook Pro that was also fixated using nasty sticky tape.
thats a great tip, but some manufacturers have the battery on a recessed chassis, making this technique way more difficult to use.
Second that. It is a bit of a hassle to get all the games and to access them on the deck, but once you set that up, it runs great and you also are much less limited :)
The hassle is “search Pirate Bay for the game > download it into your games folder” after initial setup of emulators using emudeck
I would still steer clear of the Pirate Bay but depending on what you are looking for there’s likely a repacker or site that has what you need. FitGirl for example has some Switch games bundled with the keys that you need for Ryujinx. If you just needs ROMs I’d recommend checking out the /r/ROMs megathread.
Playing Nintendo first party games on Nintendo consoles is superior for many Nintendo first party games lover. It is just as it was when one was small 😄 that’s why right now, I go for 3ds.
Exact same game;
Switch: 30fps
Steam deck: 60fpsHow is the switch superior?
There is a single aspect in which the Switch remains superior: Simplicity. Sure, you could take the time once to set up Yuzu and your Switch games and be rewarded with superior performance.
But the technically less experienced user might be put off by the fact that you can‘t just plonk in the game and play it. That‘s however not exclusive to the Switch.
I tried downloading Switch games from uuuuh… rather bespoke sites and they had a rather uuuuh… curious idea of what ads you could throw into the users face. Vivaldi‘s integrated adblocker simply couldn‘t handle those sites. That discouraged me from downloading games for now. Luckily MIG-Dumper is there to save the day and allow me to back up my games to later play them in Yuzu.
Is the Steam Deck emulating Switch games that much better? I’ve been thinking about setting up a few but I wasn’t sure if I would see a lot of performance dips with more demanding games.
Yes, many games run smoother and better on the deck, it just is very big and heavy achieving this.
Honestly, emulation is pretty nice and you can backup your saves without a subscription, unlike with Switch.
I talking modded Nintendo hardware, because it is the hardware style that the games are designed for, talking form factor and input devices. Especially in handheld mode, on the TV, it does not matter on what the game runs, at least for me
You have plenty of answers already, but one thing I want to point out that might not have been mentioned yet: The DS line of handhelds are unique hardware; the Switch is not.
By that I mean there is a vast library of games developed over ~15 years that were designed for the dual screen layout. Don’t listen to what anyone tells you about emulation; those games are much, much better when played on actual Nintendo hardware, not because they run poorly on emulators, but because your phone, monitors, Steam Deck, and TV are one horizontal screen. Every alternative layout I’ve seen for emulating DS games is an awkward compromise to fit two screens on one. It sucks, it doesn’t look good, and you’ll have to change the layout on a per game basis because one size absolutely does not fit all.
Now look at the Switch. It’s a standard 16:9 720p touch screen. Everything that can and will ever be built powerful enough to emulate a Switch will display those games in the way they were intended to be presented. When Switch emulation is perfect (and it’s most of the way there) there is no compromise. You can already play Switch games on other handheld devices at higher resolutions and frame rates than the Switch itself can handle and it’s an objectively better experience.
I only offer this perspective because you’re talking about a very long term view of device ownership. We are now well past the period of game development on two screens as it existed on the DS line of handhelds. I highly doubt that phase of game design is ever coming back. And like it or not, many of those games are best experienced on the original hardware they were designed for and that will probably still be the case 20 years from now. On the other hand, we already have a plethora of alternative hardware options for games made for the Nintendo Switch and those numbers will grow considerably between now and 2044.
not because they run poorly on emulators, but because your phone, monitors, Steam Deck, and TV are one horizontal screen.
Me looking at my half unfolded Galaxy Fold 5.
Say what you will about the foldables, but I enjoy my versatility.
I would absolutely love a foldable handheld like that with some actual buttons. Sadly, I think those times are behind us, even with new folding screen technology. Maybe one day if haptic tech gets good enough to mimic physical buttons.
I invested in a usb-c game pad for my emulators.
Well said the only thing I’d add is the 3DS line can play original DS games just fine. I would go that route rather than purchase something like a DS Lite with a flashcart.
It can also emulate up to PSX relatively well and I believe there’s a somewhat decent homebrew scene. Not to the Vita’s level but I think there’s a decent amount of homebrew applications and custom themes.
The “new” 3DS especially is an improvement on the original when it comes to emulation. And yeah, just last week someone ported Moonlight for it, which works surprisingly well for a device that only has a 2.4GHz WiFi card.
I never liked to play DS games on 3DS because of the blurry screen: DS games run at a 256x192 resolution while the 3DS screens stretch that out to 320x240. Non integer factor scaling at such low resolutions is incredibly noticeable.
DSi (and XL) similarly can be softmodded with nothing but an SD card, though using a DS Lite instead with a flashcart can enable GBA-Slot features in certain DS games including Pokemon.
I don’t remember the buttons to hold, but when you boot a ds game on 3ds, and hold the right buttons, it boots pixel-perfect on a smaller segment of the 3ds screen such that it’s the same exact resolution as a ds screen
If it’s like my other consoles from 20 years ago, It’ll be sealed in a box in the attic while you emulate it without a thought.
You can already emulate it with ease, lol. There are multiple Switch emulators, even
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Nintendo online is a lot like Xbox live. You can play single player without it (generally) but have to pay to get online/multiplayer
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yes, you can have multiple accounts on the switch each with their own save, without paying for online for all/any of them.
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I don’t know if I’d guarantee that. Who knows what dumb services things rely on. If you want something that’ll work maybe consider a more open ecosystem like that of the steam deck or its competitors
I don’t know if Steam counts as an “open” ecosystem though. You still kinda need to be online to play Steam games, and you can only launch said game with Steam. DRM free option would be GOG games, which doesn’t require online and the GOG launcher to play games afaik.
They said the Steam Deck and it’s competitors. They are talking about handheld gaming computers which can be used to play whatever; including Switch games. Not Steam specifically.
I’m fully aware of other options like the ROG Ally, I’m just talking specifically about the Steam Deck :)
You still kinda need to be online to play Steam games
It depends really, I’ve personally never been prevented from opening a Steam game with or without a connection.
Some other games are less clear - I’ll use Palworld as an example: this can be played offline, on a dedicated server on the same network, but it needs to fetch your username from Steam first, and perform some checks using Epic Online Services. As long as it’s started by the Steam client it’s OK, and the errors regarding EOS servers can be dismissed.
Some people have managed to join official online multiplayer servers using pirated Palworld copies, so I would not expect the current graceful network error handling to be so lenient in future updates.
you can only launch said game with Steam.
Pirated steam games can be started using an open source steam emulator - protection is basically non existent compared to intrusive DRM like Denuvo. Although I do get where you’re coming from in regards to the platform & accompanying client software being a closed ecosystem.
Steam’s hardware on the other hand, that’s open all day long 👌
DRM free option would be GOG games, which doesn’t require online and the GOG launcher to play games afaik.
I fully agree.
I’m going to be controversial here with the launcher requirement though: I use Steam because it is a launcher, games store, save file sync client, online social platform, modding client (Workshop) and games library all in one. Any device I pick up - my deck, linux laptop, or windows desktop - will continue from where I left off, without fail.
For that reason the only DRM I’ll turn a blind eye to is Steam’s own: it never gets in the way of me accessing what I purchased. With Proton/SteamPlay, games originally targeted for Windows work seamlessly on my preferred platform, Linux. If a game is unsupported, it will still set up the compatibility layer for you at your choice, for further investigation at your leisure.
Their policies also prevent developers from revoking games from users’ libraries, unless it’s a Free To Play title (most of these will have an EULA orange warning box stating such).
DRM should not have to exist at all to be honest, but in the current reality where publishers want some “protection” on their games, I’ll either accept the single, most unrestricted one, or head to the open seas 🏴☠️
I am told that if you are offline w/ steam for more than 30 days or so it kind of requires you to go online. I am unsure exactly how true this is because I’ve never had that much of a cap in my internet availability.
He said steam deck, not steam. You can install games from all stores (eg gog) and any operating system you want on the deck
If you run SteamOS I don’t think you can, can you? But other than that, yeah I get the point.
Yeah but you can install whatever OS you want and pirate the games. That’s its as open as you will ever find.
Steam Deck is an open platform because you can run any OS, launcher, etc. on it. It’s just a handheld PC. Steam itself is a closed ecosystem but the Deck is very open.
You can start steam in offline mode.
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This is a deeply philosophical question involving time, the nature of ‘self’ and potential for physical abilities, and indeed mortality itself.
I mean… how much of an answer do actually want?
OP is just asking if he can use the Switch offline and what will happen to games bought online, albeit phrased very oddly.
LOL phrased oddly? English is not my first language.
I thought it was common knowledge that paying for something (console) and owning it was not the same these days, so I just want to know what I am buying…
Don’t mind me, also we all probably think alike.
I’m right now going through the Saturn and Dreamcast catalog.
42 not enough of an answer for you people? Does everything need to be spelled out?
Whoah whoah whoah! Who are you calling “you people”!?
Not going to comment on the software ecosystems because that is pure speculation and anyone claiming otherwise is talking out of their ass.
What I will instead point out is: your hardware is likely to fail in that time period. “Planned obsolesce” or whatever, I don’t care how you justify it. The reality is that these contain batteries that will degrade, and eventually fail. That is why anyone with a PSP or a Vita should check if it is bulging and dispose of it accordingly. And I think it is the xbox 360 that has a capacitor that people should cut before it leaks? Or basically any PC from 20 or so years ago where you need to repair the system clock on the mobo.
Hell, people love to talk about how unbreakable and amazing the NES is. Except… just look at GDQ where they have had multiple (?) instances of consoles failing during runs and the runners even talk about needing to source functioning consoles and scrap them for parts. This is why the speed running community went from gatekeeping “Rawr, only original hardware” to “So… those FPGAs are fucking cool, right?”
Much like with PC gaming: having the hardware or even the license does not mean you can play it in ten years without jumping through some hoops that often involve emulation and/or cracks.
Good news is it’s really easy to replace the Nintendo Switch battery. Bad news is if the LCD goes bad or you get the blue screen you’re fucked. You can replace the LCD but the digitizer will give issues after messing with it 9/10 times. Reflowing is only a temporary solution to blue screen. I guarantee one or the other will happen within 20 years.
That assumes there are good quality batteries and displays and whatever other parts you need. I think the (launch?) switch uses the same batteries as the wii u tablet? But there is no guarantee the switch 2 will us that and just look at how companies like apple lock down access to replacement parts.
In ten years (honestly? if the switch 2 really is 2024/2025 then I would give it less than five years) the issue will be finding old switches on ebay and hoping they were well maintained and have parts you can salvage. Because buying a compatible battery pack or display or radio or whatever will be a shitshow because those parts won’t be accessible unless you are buying in bulk from electronics companies… who will probably want to sell you newer components anyway.
I agree this will likely happen. Your best bet would be hoping sites like mobilesentrix still carry some
Digitizer issues are usually from getting the wrong digitizer. They are programmed differently for the HAC-001(-01) (v2 classic switch) vs the HAC-001 (v1 classic switch).
More specifically the game card reader board that the digitizer plugs into needs to match. So make sure you buy your digitizer to match the game card reader version, or buy a game card reader to go with it (you can get them for ~$14). Unfortunately many digitizer sellers on eBay don’t say which model it is designed for.
Alternatively you can mix and match those versions if you have an unpatched/modded switch. Just launch Hekate, go to tools and run the digitizer calibration.
I haven’t repaired too many switches but the first time it happened to me I had a spare v2 game card reader and that fixed it immediately. Second time I used the Hekate method and that worked just as well
I used to work at a tech repair company. I’ve probably repaired close to 50 switches. Even without replacing the digitizer just replacing the LCD and not even messing with the smaller PCB for the digitizer just unplugging the ribbon cable and plugging it back in would sometimes mess with the digitizer. I didn’t realize that Hekate had a digitizer calibration but if I ever feel like picking up my modded switch again, I’ll keep it in mind. Personally I’m not a fan of the console.
What’s stopping you from replacing the battery?
My DS Lite battery still works. If it doesn’t, it can be replaced.
There are games like “Control” that are guaranteed to be dead in 5 years max as they’re glorified remote play solutions. The game is playing on someone else’s computer and streamed to the switch. So the bill for that computer is paid by new sales like a Ponzi scheme. No more sales = the dev turns off their servers = no more playing
control is streamed? for switch or in general?
It was news to me as well. Here is a Verge article talking about it but it says the following
In order to play the game, you’ll need a Nintendo Account to access cloud service and “a persistent high-speed internet connection to play the game.” (It includes similar technology to Stadia and Luna, but Control’s cloud game will be handled by Ubitus.) Any interruption in the connection will cause it to disconnect in minutes. In order to buy the game, players will be required to use a launcher application to test that their connection can handle its requirements for five minutes. It will also require buying an Access Pass, priced at $39.99.
I really hope it doesn’t go the same way as other game streaming services but I wouldn’t be surprised.
Nintendo online will go away at some point just like every other online serve they’ve had.
This isn’t Nintendo Online this is a third party service I’m worried about caving within a year or two.
I don’t expect it to last indefinitely I’m just hoping it lasts longer than things like Stadia.
Unless it has gotten better, the joy cons on these things always fail. That’s 1 reason I never got one
Even if the games run, the joy cons will likely not last long before drifting
I’ve got my Switch since 2018 and am still on my first (Splatoon-edition, bought shortly after the Switch) Joycons. No problems, no drifting. And the OEM Joycons are in a drawer somewhere as backup.
Do you play a lot of Zelda? Just asking because my suspicion is that the joycons go bad quicker depending on how they’re used which is dependent on the games you play.
I play a good amount of Zelda on mine and have had to replace the sticks multiple times.
I played the first Zelda for half a year and Ocarina of Time, but also lots of ego shooters like Doom, Doom Eternal, all the classic Dooms, Quake, Duke3D, etc. And Animal Crossing. And racers and space games.
Yeah I don’t play any FPS games, and way more Zelda than you have. So it could be certain movements on the sticks wear them out quicker.
Of course it could just be how we’re using the controllers is different. Maybe I’m just hard on equipment.
Or you just got better sticks.
I mean it is a problem on all controllers really, PS and XBox controllers can have drift problems too. But the Switch controllers are notorious for it, so I always wonder if it has something to do with the games that are exclusive to the Switch. But maybe Nintendo just has quality control problems with their controllers. Who knows?
You’re one of the lucky few
tbf i think dualshock 4 controllers die about as fast as joycons. but also joycons cost 70$ while you can get a new dualshock 4 for 25
For me, the Joycons feel really cheap. I don’t have a switch though.
Also, was unimpressed by the way Nintendo treated Wii U and wii customers (I had both)
I’ve been using a pair of dual shock 4s for something like seven years now without any drift. I had to buy new stick tops because I wore them out.
OTOH, the dual sense I bought started drifting so badly, it was unusable after a year.
my last dualshock 4 lasted like 3 years before starting to show first signs of drift
Nintendo doesn’t have always-online DRM. Some games won’t work 20 years from now of course, but your cartridge of BOTW or Pikmin 4 will still work as long as the hardware is in good repair. The Switch is a fine system and should last for years and years of quality game time.
Off topic but does the game cartridge slot have a known amount of cycles until failure?
I’m thinking about how phone’s charging/data ports are stress tested by simulating hundreds of connections.
The cartridges are just SD cards. So however long SD cards last for is thier life span.
I’m talking about the cartridge system not the cards themselves
It’s an SD card slot. It’ll last as long as SD cards last.
Technically it’s micro SD, actually.
If you can get your hands on a NDS with an R4 for a decent price, I’d say that will give you way better access to a great library of games. The games are going to be simpler and a bit dated, but there are some gems in there. There’s no dependency on online and the games will work until the hardware fails
The 3DS is better, and you don’t need an R4 card to mod things anymore. You can also mod the switch, though you have to do some stuff every reboot and have to have an older model.
3ds won’t play GBA games right?
It sure does, you can inject gba files into gba Virtual Console Titles and create a new .cia file to be installed using FBI. Of course, there are many premade gba .cia files already out there (found the most important ones on reddit posts)
I now have all the pkemon (from red to ultraMoon) on my 3ds Homescreen. Additionally I have installed pksm, which gives me local pokemon bank functionality, backup of my save files, and many more features for all those pokemon versions.
I really can recommend 3ds ( 3ds.hacks.guide ). But a unpatched batch one switch, can all this and a lot more faster and for ever as well (there is a pksm for switch as well). With a newer switch, you have to solder some stuff IIRC.
open_agb_firm is another option for GBA games. Seems to offer better performance, particularly when it comes to audio. I played through Pokemon Emerald with that recently, and it was the only way I could avoid the distracting sound issues.
I have not recognized sound issues in my current emerald run on VC. But sometimes (it is supposed, due to slow SD cards), the top bar of the image is shown in lower part of the screen. For me, going home and restart the VC game fixed it normally. I just love booting games from the 3ds Home Screen
Oh, nice! I wasn’t aware of that
Yes, newer switches need a modchip. They’re dirt cheap these days but require microsoldering- not for the faint of heart, ESPECIALLY for the Lite and OLED switches.
Yea, soldering that without a microscope (or similar) seems veeery infuriating, lol, according to the videos I watched.
A microscope is explicitly required IMO. I would definitely not attempt the mod without one.
R4 is dead. Too many fakes, too many timebombs. Ace3DSx chips are where it’s at.
Easily fixable with other firmware such as YSMenu.
But the Ace3DSx doesn’t require CFW. Just load your games onto the card and you’re good.
I mean, that is correct, but you make it seem like the CFW is about hundreds of GBs and you need to compile it yourself… I think it is just replacing some files/folders of mere MBs.
The short answer is yes, but you’ll have to get used to the reality that Nintendo themselves will not be there for you if anything goes wrong down in those 20 years. There will be third-party fixers and a community of people who’ll probably have things made for replacements.
You are far better off using a Switch as opposed to a DS. You can emulate more on a Switch than a DS.
Even with the best care I wouldn’t expect it to last 20 years. The switch is nowhere near a well built machine as the DS was. The controllers will be lucky to last a year. They used arbitration to avoid a lawsuit over how crappy the switch is knowingly built. We’ve been through three since their inception. That being said they’re still a lot of fun. They are trying to integrate the sub more, but it’s still avoidable on some games. If you buy one get a hard case or at least a somewhat solid case to help support the console with the controllers connected if you decide to play it that way. The way that they’re connected with what destroyed them faster for us because you put too much pressure on the controllers and their connection when holding it. Using a case like this for reinforce the controllers and make them last much longer in my experience.
By DS, I hope you’re talking about a New 3DS, perhaps XL, and not the older DS models. Installing CFW on a New 3DS is pretty easy, and whether you buy your games or pirate them, there’s a giant library that could easily keep you occupied for 20+ years. Even if you stay offline. You can also run emulators, ROMs, and other homebrew to get even more use out of it.
If I was to buy a Switch, I’d want the OLED model, but they’re difficult to mod. Unless you have good soldering skills, you’ll likely have to pay for someone to install a modchip. That being said, the Switch is significantly more powerful than the 3DS. Will eShop be down for Switch in 20 years? Unfortunately, most likely. But with piracy, or games on cartridges, you could easily enjoy your games in 20+ years. The Switch can also handle emulating a lot of games that a 3DS just doesn’t have the power to.
Either system would be fine. I’d lean toward the Switch, unless you really want something that can easily fit in your pocket, can be modded without soldering, and should be a cheaper price point. I have collected every console Nintendo has made so far, and they all still work, as long as you take good care of them. The only exception is the Wii U, mine works, but they’re known for bricking because of cheap NAND chips, particularly from consoles sold at launch.
You can also buy/print an RCM jig (basically an anchored paperclip) instead of soldering a modchip on earlier models of the switch. Newer models are unhackable without a firmware version below 8.
Since the problem of the joycons breaking down has come up a few times, I just want to mention that you can easily couple 8bit-do controllers, or presumably any others, and play with those instead. That’s likely to mean they’ll be available for a while. Not sure that you can do anything about a DS’s buttons breaking
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