My first dedicated gaming system was the PS1, and in general I have no trouble going back to the sprites and chunky polygons of the mid-to-late 90s, whether on consoles or computers
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as long as I can upscale them to 1080P
Beyond that it gets a bit hit and miss- SNES and Mega Drive games look and sound fine to me and I’ve played plenty of 16 bit console games as an adult. On PC, I can enjoy 2D stuff like Sam & Max Hit the Road or the original X-Com but most early 3D, like the original System Shock, looks a bit too much like visual vomit.
Going to 8-bit, while the vast majority of NES games are too primitive to my eyes and ears, I have no problems with Game Boy/Game Boy Color games.
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(Well, at least the good ones, mostly made by Nintendo)
Is it just nostalgia because I had a GBC as a kid or is it because Game Boy games came later and had more developed visual aesthetics?
My limit is probably the very late 80s
The original Pong is still good in the context it was meant for (a bar or arcade), if you run into one somehow.
Since you mentioned the NES specifically: Super Mario Brothers 3 holds up the best, but they still make Mario games that are just as good, so I think Mega Man 2 would be my biggest recommendation. In either case, I’d consider an infinite lives Game Genie code; standards changed for the better there.
You’re right that early 3D looks terrible. Except Doom, which still rules.
I think older games generally become less playable over time, but the high points tend to stay around a long time. The old games people say are still great aren’t nostalgia, they’re survivorship bias. Using SNES RPGs as examples, everyone says you should play Final Fantasy 6, Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, maybe the other Final Fantasies and Lufia II. But nobody recommends Breath Of Fire anymore, even though at the time it was considered good enough to have a whole series spawn off of it.
Dragon Quest?
A question I’m not qualified to answer.
Yeah, I kind of forgot to take arcade games into account which tend to have very simple gameplay that stands the test of time better. I’ve just never really played any to any appreciable degree.
The funny thing about the NES Super Mario games is that I did actually play the original Super Mario Bros as a kid as Super Mario Brothers Deluxe, the GBC port that had a horrible field of view due to the lower resolution of the Game Boy Color. I agree that the NES Marios are pretty fun, but I vastly prefer the All-Stars SNES remakes in terms of graphics.
I guess I’d categorise Doom as “late early 3D.” Don’t really have a problem with it or games with similar aesthetics like Descent or Hexen which I played on an old family computer.
BoF 1 was good, but not great. BoF 2 belongs with Lufia 2 and the Square gang IMO.
Platformers, specially the old ones, tend to be more frustrating than interesting. But I have no idea why Ninja Gaiden (the original one) is insanely fun to me.
Not as old but when my videocard went kaboom and I was stuck on integrated graphics the original Dark Forces was actually really fun for me. Except the sewer level, fuck that.
Helldivers 2. I don’t like retro games so anything older than that just feels clunky and outdated to me.
You don’t play anything released older than the last couple months?? That’s an extreme opinion…
It’s a joke.
no it isn’t, I’m not old
I get it!
I’ve enjoyed games as old as Zork from 79 and find that most of the notable games of the NES and SNES era pretty easy to go back to.
The only older games that I have difficulty playing are the really early 3d ones. Most developers just didn’t have a handle on making stuff in 3d and alot of it is unplayable now.
If you didn’t get forced into a high school “work experience” day by going to your dad’s office, only to find out that they all just play Wolfenstein 3D all day and don’t actually do any work, don’t @ me about classic video games.
I could pretty much enjoy games of any era except for games from the Atari consoles. Those were basically just shitty versions of contemporary arcade games. This was during the time when consoles were seen as portable arcades, which was still true well into the early 90s where a lot of Genesis games was just ports of arcade games. And as an aside, that would make Gameboy the portable version of the portable version of arcades, which was also true when it came out.
But going back to the Atari consoles, besides them just being inferior arcade games, I heavily dislike the aesthetics as well. It just looks like ass to me. Just look at this. That 7 at the top is so awkward looking. It’s like ASCII art wasn’t standardized yet or something, so all their art have this weird look where they’re afraid of drawing diagonals or curves.
Their 7 is like this:
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When ASCII art 7 is more like this:
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You just reminded me of Neo Geo. The whole idea of that console was that you were getting the direct from the arcade experience.
IIRC the console cost $700 and the game cartridges were $200 each… in early 90s dollars.
$200 for a single game, too. It wasn’t a cart that had like multiple games on it or something.
I believe that console was deliberately intended to be a high-end thing for rich enthusiasts
WTF The Atari aesthetic is peak.
Check out that background colour in that tank game
I think historical-materialist forces cause an evolution of an artform that make earlier forms less accessible. For example, only the hardest-core movie buffs watch films from the Silent Era. The same forces affect video games.
It’s no secret that earlier games are simpler, both graphically and gameplay. Games are simulations. When earlier computers were less capable, fewer things could be simulated the game. It’s not like earlier game developers didn’t have grandiose ideas about what they wanted (see: Dungeons and Dragons), but those limitations means only the absolutely necessary make it into the game. Many games of the 80s and 90s came with a manual because they could not fit all the descriptions/tutorials/story within the game executable itself. It also meant that affordances from later games are conspicuously absent, and can make going back in time a frustrating experience. On the flipside those limitations also made games paradoxically easier to make. When you accept the technical limitations and don’t try to achieve beyond them you get endless franchise-powered games, like Disney movies or games-as-vehicles-for-toys. Go back far enough and you get Atari shovelware was put out faster than the Steam store, resulting in a collapse of the US video game market in 1983. As games became more complex (graphically, gameplay, etc), and thus more expensive to make, it became harder for franchise-vehicle quick-buck games to sell.
That being said, there’s something about an artist that takes the limitations of their medium and works through it. Charlie Chaplin films are still fun to watch despite the limitations of their time. You can appreciate a game’s “Art History”, coming to understand the evolution to where games are today by how previous artists worked (and failed) in the past.
tl;dr: It’s not just you. Games are better than ever now.
I just wonder if it’s a simple generational thing where whatever you grow up with becomes the baseline compared to which anything older looks increasingly primitive and impenetrable or if video games achieved a level of graphical fidelity and game design sophistication at some point that would make them accessible even to new audiences.
I would imagine it’d be easier for a person born in 2007 to go back to Final Fantasy 10 than it would be for a person born in 1992 to go back to Final Fantasy 1
I would imagine it’d be easier for a person born in 2007 to go back to Final Fantasy 10 than it would be for a person born in 1992 to go back to Final Fantasy 1
Final Fantasy 7 is a great example. The original game is a classic, but it does have some infuriating gameplay at times and the graphics are definitely early-3D vintage. Try climbing the Shin-Ra tower and try not to get frustrated! The remake sought to carry forward the good ideas (story, Materia), ditching things that are dated (time/turn-based combat, random encounters), and adding newer designs that came after it was released. The Godfather is a movie equivalent to FF7. Easily a classic, extremely well done, and looms large on the history of film. However, these days we learned many film techniques from that movie and others. while at the same time the high praise also creates high expectations. The Godfather has difficulty standing up to it’s lofty scrutiny these days simply because our tastes and film-making abilities have increased as well.
Art forms evolve by learning from previous artists, and art consumers evolve alongside.
The original game is a classic, but it does have some infuriating gameplay at times and the graphics are definitely early-3D vintage.
It’s crazy how big the graphical gap is between 7 and 8. Not just in terms of the ingame character models but the quality of the pre-rendered backgrounds and cutscenes. Compare any cutscene from FF7 to the opening movie of FF8 and it looks like a generational leap.
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Too bad the actual game kinda sucks
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Too bad the actual game kinda sucks
I just wonder if it’s a simple generational thing where whatever you grow up with becomes the baseline compared to which anything older looks increasingly primitive and impenetrable
Maybe for some people but I started gaming on DOS and NES and for the most part I dislike old games. I have tons of nostalgia for stuff like Myst and Golden Eye but going back to play them is just not fun. A part of my problem might be that I get motion sick and old games can be really bad for that. Original NES games can still be fun, super mario 3 will remain one of the best games ever made.
Chaplin made silent movies long after the sound film had been invented. He was very vocal about his dislike of “talkies” and saw them as . Chaplin saw in silent cinema absolutely no limitation that’d have prevented him from making the films he wanted to make. While adding sound to films seems like obvious progress to us nowadays, it also further diluted what made movies unique compared to other artforms. There’s no reason to think we couldn’t have had a hundred years of incredible, inventive and still surprising silent films. Books haven’t changed in thousands of years and they haven’t started repeating themselves yet.
Technical and artistic progress aren’t connected in any straightforward manner. The topic of course gets quite a bit more complex for videogames since they are so deeply interlinked with consumer technology and are more directly interactive than other media, but the vast majority of videogames made today could have been made twenty years ago as well. The actual reason people usually don’t play older games is because the one thing that we’ve actually seen undoubtable progress in is that games have gotten much more effective at keeping your dopamine receptors firing. If you grew up playing ubisoft games or mobile gacha bullshit you’ll find it very hard to enjoy games that might delay gratification at all (be it through deliberate means like difficulty or non-deliberate like bad tutorials).
I don’t play anything before the NES era - the gameplay is just too rudimentary most of the time.
Will make exceptions for arcade style games though, like space invader, defender etc.
Lots of early NES games are still great though, stuff like Zelda and Mario. Punch-Out! is still a very unique game that holds up well. Its only competitors are its sequels.
visually old games are fine, but design wise they can get iffy for me. I’m sorry but random encounters just aren’t fun, it stopped me from playing persona 2
its a problem in more recent games too. I’ve been replaying dragon age 2 but I had to put it at the lowest difficulty just because of the endless random encounters and waves of enemies. Its so frustrating.
especially when the encounters aren’t brief, it’s just awful. why can’t we choose when to fight or when to stealth around an enemy?
I’ve played some older DOS games that were simple polygon/vector graphics and text boxes and with the exception of some QoL things that have become standard in the … holy crap…30+ years since the 80’s ( soooo ooolllddd) I could get into them for a while and find them enjoyable.
I keep thinking I’m going to dig into the old Atari consol roms (had a few of the Atari consoles for a while as a kid long before the NES) but it seems a bit daunting to relearn how to play a game with a “joystick” and “one button”.
I also keep thinking I’m going to try playing the ancient text adventure/interactive story games but every time I try… my brain just can’t figure out how to deal with things as a more casual enjoyer of video games. I wind up giving up after about 30 minutes to an hour of “playing”.
Though I still have a blast playing Rogue with ASCII graphics every now and then.
While I’m not hugely into NES games I can see their appeal aesthetically and they mostly still read as “video games” to me. Anything Atari starts to look a bit too rudimentary to my 90s eyes
While I’m not hugely into NES games I can see their appeal aesthetically and they mostly still read as “video games” to me. Anything Atari starts to look a bit too rudimentary to my 90s eyes
Its kinda the reason why I want to sit down and give some honest effort to play through some of the Atari XX00 console games someday. Kinda like going to a “hands on” history museum.
Mario 3 is the goat old school NES game
Ms. Pacman. Those arcade screens hit different and its crazy how much you could modify an older game by just plugging in a chip.
For 2d stuff my limit for non-nostalgic enjoyment is probably around:
- super Mario world
- Zelda LTTP
- ultima 7
- xcom
Stuff like that holds up pretty well IMO.
I agree with others about early 3d stuff being harder. Bad 3d physics especially drives me nuts. Carmageddon is the first game I remember with tolerable 3d physics, but I don’t think it was until around Halo that games were consistently getting it right.
I mostly play older games via emulation, and the biggest issue is the rough transition from 2d to 3d graphics (PS1 and N64 mainly) that was smoothed out with the Gamecube and PS2 (and Atari 2600 garbage, I doubt anyone seriously played those classic collections). I think the PS1 especially jumped the gun with 3d, where stuff like Rayman and Symphony of the Night are really timeless. For the N64, I still really like Majora’s Mask and Ocarina of Time.
I still often play early NES games. The NES Mario trio, Zeldas, Metroid, and Final Fantasy games get play from me from time to time. Most recently have played the original Final Fantasy which I enjoy a lot for some reason. Super Mario Bros. 3 gets several plays per year from me. I’ve played that game hundreds of times and will probably never stop playing it.