Members of the House committee that investigated the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol have warned America for three years to take former President Donald Trump at his word.
Now, as Trump is poised to win the Republican presidential nomination, his criminal trials face delays that could stall them past Election Day, and his rhetoric grows increasingly authoritarian, some of those lawmakers find themselves following their own advice.
In mid-March, Trump said on social media that the committee members should be jailed. In December he vowed to be a dictator on “day one.” In August, he said he would “have no choice” but to lock up his political opponents.
“If he intends to eliminate our constitutional system and start arresting his political enemies, I guess I would be on that list,” said Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-San Jose). “One thing I did learn on the committee is to pay attention and listen to what Trump says, because he means it.”
Lofgren added that she doesn’t yet have a plan in place to thwart potential retribution by Trump. But Rep. Adam B. Schiff (D-Burbank), who has long been a burr in Trump’s side, said he’s having “real-time conversations” with his staff about how to make sure he stays safe if Trump follows through on his threats.
“We’re taking this seriously, because we have to,” Schiff said. “We’ve seen this movie before … and how perilous it is to ignore what someone is saying when they say they want to be a dictator.”
Non-American just double-checking I’ve got his right…
Private citizen makes actionable credible threat to unlawfully detain legislators, legislators choose to do nothing for about half a year before slowly murmuring without specifics other than “yeah he said it” and “I think he means us”.
You OK USA? Just checking in.
There is, unfortunately, no law against saying you’re going to be a power abusing jackass. And the Republicans have decided that if he gets into office, they’ll protect him from impeachment and removal no matter what. His lawyers have literally argued that the president can order assassinations of their political rivals.
So no, we’re not okay.
There is, unfortunately, no law against saying you’re going to be a power abusing jackass.
I would argue that Trump committed sedition and terroristic threats. The trouble is that everyone in the Federal government is either too chickenshit or too traitorous themselves to prosecute.
I see. I should have my lawyers argue buying a $1,000,000 house for $0 is reasonable, that way a deal for $500,000 is perfectly reasonable. In the same way that threatening to illegally detain is a halfway compromise between nothing and threatening murder.
And it seems that imprisoning political opponents goes beyond carting down a hill in a shopping trolley which is what we here overseas associate with “jackass”, but what do I know.
We are not okay. Nothing will happen to him about it, though. He can be literally court ordered to not talk shit about courtroom staff or families, then talk shit about them, and he gets nothing other than a reduced bond and an extension to pay that.
Going after Trump for his crimes would set a precedent for going after the rest of them for their crimes. It’s in their interests to not open that door.
Yes this is exactly why the impeachments failed. It would have been easy to take him down for the violation of the emoluments clause (profiting from their office), but nobody in power would do it because then they’d face corruption charges for it too
https://images.app.goo.gl/fQWwqgb2CPyjUDkM7
Jokes aside, if the US falls to fascism, it’s gonna be a massive problem for Europe. Imagine fascists in charge of the biggest nation with a history of colonialism, and the world’s largest stockpile of nukes.
It would be awesome if the other first-world nations started taking this threat seriously, before it’s too late.
We need the world to issue sanctions against the US. Please sanction us. We lost control of the government and need your help
Giving our oligarchs the same treatment as russian oligarchs would be a good start. Seize their property and assets wherever and whenever possible.
Certainly I think it would be fair that they pay reparations for their crimes.
Europe? Nuclear war is a threat to all animals on earth.
Very true. But I doubt elephants have the capacity to intervene.
As soon as Botswana delivers the 20,000 elephants to Germany, you will observe the world being reshaped by German war elephants.
Well, we have animals in Europe. Like, um… rabbits.
European here.
This comment takes assumption that by “US falling to fascism” you meant Trump taking control of the USA. Please ignore everything if I misunderstood.
Trump’s among the few US presidents that didn’t start a new war. Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2A22QR/
He also scaled down wars in Afghanistan, Syria and Iraq. I AM NOT SAYING THOSE ACTIONS WERE GOOD OR BAD FOR THE USA, or for the rest of the world for that matter. And I’m really not qualified to discuss that.
This comment is ONLY a direct reply to a concern that Trump’s rule should have Europe worried in the sense that he’ll nuke us.
Maybe someone else nukes us as a consequence of his inaction, idk. But Trump nuking Europe is what you said, and I disagree.
I’m not talking about trump, actually. He’s just a carnival barker. If he wins the next election, he’ll do whatever his handlers want him to do, which will hasten things. But him losing will not stop the fascist movement in progress. There’s a group of actual fascists who have been working on this for decades. Some are in Congress, some are high up in organisations like the Heritage Foundation and the Federalist Society (writing bills and selecting judges), and others are consultants and advisers.
I’m actually concerned that when trump loses, people will think the threat has passed. His loss will mitigate it somewhat, but it won’t stop them. A large part of the threat is Christian nationalists in Congress, the Supreme Court, and in many other seats of power throughout the country.
Got it, ignore what I said then, I don’t have enough knowledge to talk about what you’re talking about.
We are not. Please send help
No we’re not ok.
On the one hand moderate and liberal voters, the DNC, establishment Democrats, centerist corporate news stations, past presidents and Biden himself are talking about how dangerous Trump is. He cannot be allowed to win.
Okay, sounds serious. Serious enough to make some big moves in order to get the votes necessary to win by a comfortable margin? If you check out Biden’s insistence on continuing to ship weapons to Israel the answer is “no”.
And really this encapsulates the problem with so called moderates and liberals. When faced with a choice between left or right when the center cannot hold they just fuck around, stall or outright sabotage leftist efforts. Effectively cementing a rightward victory and then blaming it on leftists.
It’s pretty pathetic how often they play this game and considering they actually do seem sincerely worried about Trump it’s bewildering why they aren’t seeking more cooperative efforts with leftists and progressives. They remain steadfastly confident stern lectures, as if leftists and progressives owe their votes, are all that is necessary.
No, we are not.
legislators choose to do nothing for about half a year before slowly murmuring…
Let me correct that for you: legislators pointing this out are prevented from doing anything because the opposing party has enough numbers to stop anything from happening that’d piss off their base regarding trump.
And no, we’re not ok
wow, this trump guy seems scary 😳 i wonder what the democrats are doing to stop him
They’re working overtime to pre-emptively blame the upcoming loss on everybody left of mid right Genocide Joe to cover up the fact that their only talking point is “Yeah Joe does it but Trump will do it more!”
Does that count?
Funding genocide with one hand and pointing the finger of blame with the other. Really classy.
Not enough.
If I understand correctly how democracy works, it’s the judicial branch that has to do something, not the opposite party.
i wonder what the democrats are doing to stop him
Same thing they always do: fundraising like crazy!
“We’re taking this seriously”
Then why have they not arrested (and hopefully executed) Trump and most of his toadies yet? Seems like they’re not that serious.
B-but then we’re just as bad as them
How is arresting a fascist bad you ask? Uhhhhhh
Remember the Lulags?
This is why
Adam Schiff can’t arrest Trump. He doesn’t have the authority to. It doesn’t mean he isn’t taking the threat seriously.
Executed?
America has executed tens or hundreds of thousands of black and brown people all over the world, without trial, for much lesser acts of alleged terrorism than publicly threatening to kidnap US legislators.
Yep, I think it’s time to play by republican rules. If they want to play dirty, let’s play dirtier. Time to re-open Gitmo. We kept accused spies, traitors, and terrorists locked up for decades without trial. Trump has sold US secrets to the Russians, incited a violent attack on the U.S. capital, and openly stated he would let Russia take Ukraine, a U.S. ally.
That’s 3 for 3. Cuff him, put a bag on his head, and leave him rotting in a cell in the humid heat and isolation until he starves to death.
Hey just so you know, the gitmo prison never closed:
Yes. And that doesn’t justify us killing their politicians. It does justify sending them to the ICC.
Why should American or Western laws or morality apply to a crime that occured overseas? If Pakistani or Iraqi law allows for the death penalty for mass murder, who is anyone to say that they’re not entitled to try and execute an American politician in accordance with their laws?
In fact, who are “we” even in this situation?
The United Nations is to say. See the Declaration of Human Rights. Its a wonderful document.
https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights
That’s not how jurisdiction or extradition works. Invoking the Universal Declaration of Human Rights to block the death penalty from being applied to the politicians of a State Member that allows and applies the death penalty domestically is also a hilarious thought, even if the UN had any way to intercede to stop the death penalty from being carried out (it does not).
Is this a bit?
No, it does justify it. He’s literally trying to be Hitler.
Either Trump is an existential threat that requires the strongest possible response, or he’s just another corrupt asshole in a country dominated by others like him.
And before you go “but America doesn’t do that sort of thing!”, I’d encourage you to look up Fred Hampton.
I’m familiar with COINTELPRO and more recent black sites used by CPD.
My point is that we shouldn’t sink to their level. We can neutralize the threat of a wanna-be dictator man child without murder. The man is sick and he deserves to be treated for his illness.
Sure, imprison, convert or kill. Those are the three ways to neutralize someone and they should at least try one.
The sentence in prison should be as long as is needed to rehabilitate them.
Prison isn’t a place to “convert” or “torture” or “punish” someone. Its s place for them to get care and education until they are safe to return to society without being a risk to themselves or others.
There is no point in claiming that the purpose of a system is to do what it constantly fails to do.
The purpose of a system is what it does.
There are countries where prisons are used to torture and there are countries where prisons are used as rehabilitation centers. Both exist.
My point is that we should build the later, not the former.
I very much do not give a shit whether Trump is rehabilitated or not, he’s an existential danger to many groups of people, if somebody decides to put a bullet in his head I’m not gonna cry over it.
Trump doesn’t deserve forgiveness or a chance to get better. He deserves a hole in the ground with his neck broken.
Not in the US it’s not…
The US is the most violent and one of the most classist societies in the world. Slavery is still legal in US prisons.
Its hardly a benchmark.
Those three methods are taken from the FBI suppressing Black revolutionary thought. I’m this model, prisons are absolutely places to torture, punish and convert people.
No. He deserves death. Hitler in a bunker with soldiers on his doorstep style if we’re lucky. Unless you think Hitler didn’t deserve death, in which case go suck my fuzzy sack you fucking Nazi.
Trump is not a ‘wanna-be dictator.’ If he wins he WILL get rid of his political enemies and fully capture our government. Then he WILL lock up the Trans people, then the gays. Then send his secret police forces to terrorize the general public into obedience as they erode and shit on every freedom you’ve ever had.
This is not hyperbole. This is the future they have publicly announced. Read about Project 2025. They mean every word.
Just because I oppose the death penalty doesn’t make me a nazi. ffs, look in a mirror.
I’m a Nazi because I want Hitler 2 dead? Jesus christ you fucking sympathizer. All you can do is say ‘No u’ because you know that fucker doesn’t deserve life.
Every being deserves life. Even sick ones. They deserve treatment for their illnesses.
Doesn’t treason carry the death penalty? If they seriously think he’s going to become a dictator and end democracy, he should be killed. The US government has had 0 problem doing it to leaders of other countries who did far less; why should Trump get special treatment? Just because he’s a rich white guy? Hell, they’ve even set precedent under Obama that it’s legal to drone strike US citizens on foreign soil for being terrorists. Get him next time he leaves the country.
Can we instead join the ranks of most countries and not do capital punishment?
Just disqualify him from becoming a public servant, and lock the man in a nice prison with access to educational programs and other social services. He needs a good history teacher and therapist.
Also, yes, stop all funding to the military and send the generals and their henchmen to the ICC to see if they should receive the same treatment.
He needs a good history teacher and therapist.
Absolute lib shit lmao. The man is 77 years old and has never faced consequences for his actions in his entire life. That’s who he is. He’s not going to suddenly reverse his entire personality because you made him talk with a therapist for a couple hours.
Like I understand the desire for rehabilitation, but some people are just fucked.
At any rate he deserves it for his war crimes alone.
Not lib shit, just an actual ficking idiot. I’m a raging fucking lib and I’d drag Tump into the street and shoot him myself if I could. We literally had a world War over this shit and people still want kid gloves.
Owl here is clearly just a fucking sympathizer trying to muddy the water.
A couple hours? He’s very sick. I think he would need to see a therapist and study history every day for at least 20 years…
Yes, he should be put in a reeducation camp. But we don’t have one of those, do we?
Dude what the actual fuck is wrong with you? Therapy doesn’t fix sociopathic psychopathy lol.
It can maybe help a person cope with it and reduce harmful behavior, but for real sending Trump to a therapist would just be cruel to the therapist.
Look, it’d be great to abolish the death penalty, the army, and the current version of the government in favor of something more equitable and humane. But that’s not the world we live in. Last year cops killed over 1000 people. In the america of today, under the laws that exist today, why should Trump not be killed?
I dont hear an argument for why we can’t lock them all up in a nice facility with access to educational programs and other social services to help them be rehabilitated.
Trump and most police need a lot of therapy and a proper education about US and world history.
Empty all of the prisons of folks charged with victimless “crimes” and you have plenty of space for white collar criminals and 99% of the police officers
hey, i can tell you’re a good faith user and that’s really great, we need more of those. thank you for that.
nobody is saying that what you’re arguing for isn’t a good thing, most people on hexbear would agree. their point is we can’t just have that for rich assholes like trump, we should have that for everyone, and that’s what should be happening. but the Democrats aren’t going to do that. so to deal with him, at least for now, treat him like they do everyone who’s jailed in america
hey, i can tell you’re a good faith user
Are they? They seem like a bit
None of what you advocate can happen without revolution, and as a certain philosopher and activist said, “a revolution is not a dinner party.” It will be violent, and many people will die.
You can either have that, or you can have the Democrats/Republicans pretending to be the party of civility while they commit genocide. No ruling class in history has ever given up power peacefully.
Owl here is just a fucking troll. Hopefully. Otherwise he’s a massive fucking dumbass.
India? Canada?
Most white collar crime is just stuff like embezzlement and causes less harm than normal crime.
Aren’t most people convicted in the US charged with “victimless crimes”?
Sorry, but white collar criminals embezzling from pension funds and doing mortgage lending fraud causes immense harm. Possessing a specific species of flowers doesnt do harm.
They’re preparing to do what? Tut tut and issue a statement? Impeach him a third time and fail again to remove him from office? The Democrats don’t believe in anything
If they actually believed Trump is the next Pinochet they’d hire someone to kill him. Or they’d go after one of the legit crimes he did rather than anything he’ll just slip out of. Biden could get the national guard to burn down Mar-a-lago but he won’t.
They don’t actually believe in anything. They’re spineless dorks who want to pretend they’re saving democracy or whatever. It’s all theater to these people. In fact, they probably want Trump to win so their districts will throw more money at Democratic fundraisers. What a bunch of goofy nerd libs.
Dork and nerd here. Please dont lump us in with those plutocratic assholes. They are not dorks nor nerds.
Invertebrate slime? I could call them a bunch of stuff. I mean to say the Democrats are cowards who have no beliefs except cynicism. I don’t mean to catch anyone in the crossfire. If you’re into coding or Gundam or something that’s cool, don’t worry, I don’t mean you. I own an entire shelf of manga and I repair cassette tape players so I’m a dork too.
Why not call them what they are? They are capitalists. I can’t think of a more apt and degregating term than that.
Let me get this straight… The reason you dislike the Democrats is because they won’t assassinate their opponents? Can you imagine what this country would be like if politicians were ordering hits on each other?
Where did they imply they wanted them to do that? They were just saying that they talk like he is modern Hitler about to be in power, if they really believed that they would take more serious actions
Yes, I dont like it how they refuse to enact any violence on fascist politicians.
Ron DeSantis is out here killing trans people, I’d vote for democrats in a heartbeat if they strung him up like Mussolini
Adam B. Schiff (D-Burbank), who has long been a burr in Trump’s side, said he’s having “real-time conversations” with his staff about how to make sure he stays safe
Bro will absolutely let himself be jailed under belief that the system works and everything will turn out okay lmao
Trump himself isn’t going to do anything.
Who would be the ones arresting them.
It boggles my mind that anyone would listen to anything that fat fucking twatburger says.
And yet…
Barron and Eric showing up in brown shirts to haul Dems away would be funny.
What the hell you just say?
Should I copy paste it?
He doesn’t need anyone to arrest his opponents. He just needs the fervent MAGA base to be whipped up into a frenzy like on Jan 6th. To be so angry if no LEO arrests Trump’s opponents that they go out kill them, because hey it’s totally cool now because Trump’s a dictator.
He’ll probably offer pardons to anyone willing to kill his opponents.
That’s kind of how the whole thing could/should fall apart. “Authority” gives a command and someone down the chain has to enact it, if that person or persons above the chain refused to act - there would be conflict, but hopefully the opportunity for realization that authority gave an objectionable command. The cynical take is that any number of enthusiastic appeasers would enact the command to engratiate themselves to the authority in the system, defeating the message of the refusal.
Unfortunately, much of American machismo includes stepping on others to get a better view, or to be viewed more prominently by favored authority. So to answer your question, there’s probably a dishearteningly large pool of people who would jump at the tasks Trump would dictate.
If he wins it will be the loyalist puppets who he installs in the DOJ and other top positions in law enforcement and the courts. This is one of his campaign promises.
federal officers directed by his attorney general
Random federal agents like when Trump’s admin sent a bunch of anonymous feds against protestors to stir shit up and make secret arrests
The FBI, DHS, ATF, or similar member of the alphabet army. The POTUS has a lot of minions with the authority to arrest you.
Which was the one shoving people into unmarked vans in 2020, DHS? That’s the one it will be, I’d put money on it.
I don’t think we ever got a real answer on that one, since the vans and the agents were unmarked. So just straight-up kidnapping.
Can the president simply order them to arrest people for no good reason?
Last time I checked, the alphabet agencies weren’t Trump’s “minions”, and they actually didn’t like him very much.
Can the president simply order them to arrest people for no good reason?
Yes. Just like you can. It’s not hard to give an order.
If you want to know whether or not the agency will listen and obey… that’s a whole other question and gets into dangerous territory when we know the POTUS loves being a dictator.
Last time I checked, the alphabet agencies weren’t Trump’s “minions”, and they actually didn’t like him very much.
Then you checked wrong. The POTUS is the head of the executive and the alphabet agencies are within said executive. POTUS is at the top.of their food chain, same as the military. As I said, though, it can get arbitrarily nuanced when you ask if a given agent will obey an illegal order or not.
Oh look, yet another reminder of why the working class must never disarm.
Or why people need to get their shit together and get involved in politics
Why not both? I think everyone towards the left should consider some firearms. When history repeats itself Donald will be executing the socialists first. I do hope the dim bulbs of America get a clue before November, but I don’t know if we should trust that they will.
You do what you want, I’ll be looking at you guys from a first world country in the meantime, as if MAD didn’t show us how stupid the American live for weapons is.
It doesn’t help that the largest employers in the US (Gov & USPS) bar their employees from involvement even at the local level if anyone can announce their party affiliation.
If you go further down the list of employers, it’s a bunch of people who are mostly too overworked to have the time to vote…
Arming up is getting involved in politics after a certain point. It’s just the point after we accept that electoralism does fuck-all for the laborer except legitimize a bullshit system.
Porque no los dos?
I agree with the ideals behind socialism more than any other political ideology. I own a gun. I don’t think it would do me a bit of good if a modern government decided I should be dead.
Why do people assume individuals are planning on defending themselves from the full force of the government? There’s a whole chasm of situations between “The power structures in place leave me in peace” and “The power structures in place have decided to move with their full weight against me specifically.”
Not if you’re just one individual, but the security forces of a state are always vastly outnumbered by it’s subjects. And just knowing that many average people are armed can make authoritarians hesitate I think.
His cult will eat that shit up, completely forgetting he promised to lock up Hillary Clinton and they all ate that up too.
Fortunately they are a minority. Unfortunately the US isn’t a democracy
Yup, I highly doubt he’ll actually do it. I really don’t believe he actually cares that much about politics, he just wants his name repeated in every household.
That said, they are credible threats, and they should be treated as such.
He might not care about politics but I can assure you he absolutely cares about his ego, and not being humiliated in legal proceedings.
He would absolutely lock someone up just for revenge, to demonstrate his power, and to have them ask him for forgiveness.
IDK, I think he’s a coward and a bully, and actually locking people up would be a big step for him. However, if he sees it work, he’d keep doing it.
But it doesn’t matter what I think he’ll actually do, what matters is whether the threat is credible.
Cowardice doesn’t really work like that though.
A coward who is POTUS wouldn’t be worried about locking up opponents.
One thing that has become very clear over the last several months is that Trumps only strategy to answer the many legal and criminal cases against him is to delay until he’s president. This pretty much means that if he does become president, then he must remain so until he dies or else he will go to jail.
This means, if he becomes pres there need be no consideration for repercussions once he’s no longer pres.
Nah, he can probably pardon himself and get away with the worst of it. The fifth amendment prevents him from being tried twice for the same crime, so he’ll probably be fine.
That said, I think he’s dumb or narcissistic enough to believe “his people” will keep him in office past his term. Why would they? He has, what, 10 decent years left (probably less), and they’re going to all gamble their political future on promises he hasn’t kept in the past?
I do think he should lose the election, and maybe go to jail (needs to go through court first), but I also think he’s not as big of a threat as liberals seem to think he is. He’s a buffoon, and his main downfall is that he thinks he’s smarter than he is.
“If he intends to eliminate our constitutional system and start arresting his political enemies, I guess I would be on that list,” said Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-San Jose). “One thing I did learn on the committee is to pay attention and listen to what Trump says, because he means it.”
This is from the article.
Are you claiming to have a better understanding of trumps mode of operation than someone who was on the Jan 6 committee, studied trumps behaviour and various utterances, and had the benefit of expert opinions?
I’m claiming that Rep. Zoe Lofgren and other Democrats on the committee have a lot to gain by spreading FUD and not a lot to lose. So it makes complete sense for them to stretch the truth.
That said, their job isn’t to determine whether Trump is likely to act on his threats, their job is to determine whether those threats represent s violation of the law and whether he violated the Constitution (and other applicable federal laws) on Jan 6. Whether he’d actually act on his threats is irrelevant.
I think there’s enough there to make a very strong case against Trump without getting into theatrics.
It is good to see that people are finally talking about this outside of twitter.
What charges will he have them arrested for? I don’t think that the president can just demand that people be arrested.
If he has the right people in place he can do whatever we allow him to get away with. No one is going to arrest the president that’s for sure. :(
They also can’t tell people to storm the Capitol and try to overthrow an election they lost.
They also can’t just take classified data when they’re voted out of office and sell it to the Saudis.
They also can’t fire the FBI director for investigating the White House.
They also can’t with old military aid from another government because they won’t fabricate evidence against their political rivals.
They also can’t collude with state officials to throw out votes.
They also can’t use campaign funds for hush-money payments.
There’s a lot a President can’t do that Trump has done.
He could blanket pardon for murders of targets in DC maybe
The president controls the executive branch, law enforcement is part of the executive branch, he can direct DOJ to make shit up. Even if courts eventually would rule they’re innocent it doesn’t stop the president from just continuing the harassment campaigns. See the red scare, etc.
“We’re taking this seriously, because we have to,” Schiff said. “We’ve seen this movie before … and how perilous it is to ignore what someone is saying when they say they want to be a dictator.”
They just have a bunch of Trump merch in hidden safes in their offices… “We’ll just blend in! Tell them we were always one of them! Its a fool-proof plan!”
Oh no the political opponent we’re trying to jail is threatening to jail us, his political opponents!
Biden and democrats won’t do shhiiittttt
And this is different than Assange and Snowden?
Yes, correct, this is different.
No its not, the state using its power to silence those that expose government corruption makes it the same thing. Obama specifically targeted whistleblowers which exposed corruption.
Different but also wrong.
Whataboutism
Just like his owner Putler does in moscovia
