Too obvious to be funny, but i still wanted to draw a shitpost.
I was just thinking about how many lins are 100% convinced that if you try to provide universal public housing to everyone you must also do a bunch of genocides and have one spy per person in your society and have no food.
Every liberal work of fiction is about how good things are actually bad
It is the moral of every story they see on the magical narrative screen that constructs their framework of what is good (Les Avengebledores, perfect children whose naivety is the source of moral correctness) and evil (Slitherkill, who wants to make the world better for the downtrodden but was damaged by a lower class childhood and therefore feels the need to murder half the universe to do it)
Evil is fundamentally sympathetic and understandable you see. Evil is imagining the world can possibly be other than it is
Lins?
I think he misspelled lib.
Btw what we mean by liberals is the original political term for those who support capitalism, not the colloquial American synonym for Democrat that alt-right types use. Conservative and libertarians are also liberals strictly speaking because they also subscribe to the same basic underlying ideology.
Edit: quoting the relevant part
In Europe and Latin America, liberalism means a moderate form of classical liberalism and includes both conservative liberalism (centre-right liberalism) and social liberalism (centre-left liberalism). In North America, liberalism almost exclusively refers to social liberalism.
Conservative and libertarians are also liberals strictly speaking because they also subscribe to the same basic underlying ideology.
How can you say such a thing! There’s a full 16pt difference in our preferred tax rates and we still can’t agree on the exact specifications of the worker visa program for illegal residentsOld joke, the Soviet Union could’ve avoided collapse if instead of having one official state party, they had two, and they agreed on absolutely everything except abortion.
There’s actually a lot to be said about the concept of “competitive” (not necessarily democratic) elections and how they increase the stability of a political system by shifting people’s perceptions of what is wrong, that’s part of what Fritz Bartel talks about in “The Triumph of Broken Promises”, the neoliberal period imposed extremely harsh conditions on people but everybody went along in the end because they felt that they had a choice in the matter (lol) meanwhile the eastern block states wanted to try doing austerity but they knew the people would never stand for it.
Also ties into Chomsky’s observation that compliance with a political economy regime is done by having a narrow band of acceptable opinions but fierce debate within the band.
Didn’t know he made that point, very astute
I think he misspelled lib.
Or did he?
We really gotta get more unique words for things.
Hey I just wanted to stop in and say thanks for being patient, the whole terminology thing around ideologies is one of the more confusing barriers to entry into leftist thought but you’re working thru it like a champ
You’ve already been linked the Wikipedia definition which is super helpful but I’m gonna paste the first bit again because it’s worth reading more times, for fluent lefties as well:
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law. Liberals espouse various views depending on their understanding of these principles but generally support private property, market economies, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), liberal democracy, secularism, rule of law, economic and political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion, constitutional government and privacy rights.
Based on this, all democrats and pretty much all republicans and libertarians are liberals, and that’s on purpose. This is what we mean when we throw punches at “libs” - we all believe that some of these qualities are good, but libs believe that all of these things are good - we don’t terribly like things like “equality before the law” (it’s just as bad for Jeff Bezos to steal a loaf of bread from a supermarket as it is for a houseless person), “freedom of the press/speech” (your freedom of the press is legally endowed on you just as it is to Elon Musk or Rupert Murdoch even though their actual freedom of the press is millions of times what yours is because they own billion dollar news and speech platforms), “right to private property” (you have the right to own dozens of resort properties just like Donald Trump does), etc. Liberalism - democrat, Republican, and libertarian - is built on the idea that everyone can use dollars and power and status to exercise their rights to whatever degree they want to, and one of our biggest reasons for calling them out under their shared umbrella of liberalism is that they all share the same fallacious worldview that allows people with more dollars to have more fundamental enshrined rights, and even though people with very few dollars can’t actually exercise any of their fundamental enshrined rights, liberals pretend they have the same rights just because they could exercise them if they had more money.
Gotcha. Thanks for the additional information. Politics can get muddy real fast, and terms can be abused or misused to create confusion.
Not really, terms should be historically constituted and there is a serious amount of self-codification among liberal theorists that makes the term extremely useful
There are only eight subspecies of liberalism that actually matter to real world politics, and they cover everything between anarcho-capitalists to DNC blue no matter who libs
Classical liberalism, utopian liberalism, social liberalism, neoliberalism, ordoliberalism, dirigisme, siege liberalism, and the mutated step-child fascism, these are the actual differentiations among the defenders of capitalism
There is only confusion on this matter because utopian, social and neo liberals successfully appropriated a mountain of socialist and anarchist lingo and incoherently applied it to themselves. I don’t blame them, liberalism is deprived of any genuine vision of human progress or solidarity, it wears the liberatory spirit of anti-capitalist ideologies like a carnival mask and as a result millions of potential radicals end up confused as to where they stand in the struggle over capitalism
It’s a problem. Libertarians stole “libertarian” for the Anarchists. “Liberal” now means you want to paint a rainbow on the bomb. People think “Conservatism” is a real thing but Nazis aren’t. Most people have no idea what Anarchism, Communism, or Socialism actually entail, let alone the enormous breadth of thouaght across the length.
We just need a point system.
Ohhh you’re a 230? Fuck you 200 class people! Haha 😛
I don’t know about what they were saying exactly but we did have someone come in earlier and start by calling us intolerant tankies and then have a meltdown over some of our non binary users using neopronouns, I can find the link if you want it
I think it’s a typo for “libs,” since n and b are next to each other on an English keyboard.
Well, that makes no sense then.
Like CriticalOtaku said in this thread, here on Hexbear, if someone says “libs,” we mean liberal in the older sense of the word.
I see. Well, I guess that’s the problem with a federated social media system. Rules for the entire system, with identical subs, and never really knowing where you are.
What’s this hexbear instance about?
we are a left unity instance. we are composed mostly of MLs and anarchists, so we are opposed to imperialism
So would it be a good place for a democratic socialist?
Yep. They lie about themselves and they’re opponents. Just like their opponents do in an opposing direction. They lie to make the opponents look worse and themselves look better.
Just like you’ve done here.
Exaggeration of “enemy” faults while downplaying your own.
they actually don’t, fascists have to keep lying about the fact how they’re not racist and don’t want to genocide everybody
we don’t have to lie about anything because we don’t want to do anything secretly nefarious. It’s simple.
objectivity is a myth and everyone is shaped by their material background
As we say on the show over and over again the atomic unit of propaganda is not lies, it’s emphasis.
Citations Needed Ep 113: Hollywood and Anti-Muslim Racism (Part I) — Action and Adventure Schlock
This one is going to find a massive increase in use since federation
It’s hardly an exaggeration of enemy faults when the enemies self-identify as fascists or are a bunch of transphobes who can’t even handle the existence of pronoun tags. And yes, transphobes and fascists are my enemies, these people literally want to kill me or want to deny my right to exist as myself in public and live a dignified life. I won’t have that here, or anywhere we can extend our influence. As somebody else said, go to the bottom of the page and check our modlog. We’re open and transparent about our moderation policy, everybody can see which mod actions were taken and why. For context, we normally have a person like that show up every other day at most, now we have to purge bigots all the time. Maybe your standards are too low to get this, maybe you think “nonbinary people don’t exist” or “stop using pronouns” isn’t hate speech, but it is. These are reactionary talking points and idgaf if you’re fine with such people infiltrating your instance, we will keep our community safe from harm as we’ve done before when such issues came up. Being an inclusive, safer space takes active work and it includes stepping on people’s toes and kicking people out who can’t behave.
Nope, I’m with you on all that. That’s also not what the comic is highlighting. Trans people exist and deserve all the rights everyone else has. Transphobes are pieces of shit and should be dealt with accordingly.
“I think Western institutions and media are not being entirely honest about their geopolitical opinions” is not like the phrasing I see from hexbear users out in the wild.
“I think Western institutions and media are not being entirely honest about their geopolitical opinions” is not like the phrasing I see from hexbear users out in the wild.
What you see is the logical conclusion of when you step back and realize that people are always supporting this year’s war drive and claiming last year’s war drive is ancient history and all in the past.
You say that like a whole lot of us didn’t have that realization decades ago.
No experience is universal and your logical conclusion won’t be the same for everyone.
Even if it were by throwing something aggressive in the face of someone who isn’t even on the same road you’re just going to come off as an ass. You drive others deeper into their position rather than getting anywhere productive. Which you may not care about on the surface, but then I’d argue you’re just pushing a different war drive.
You drive others deeper into their position
You say that like they haven’t held that position through multiple farcical wars.
I’m not the one driving them deeper into their position. They have chosen to do so themselves. Which is why they are more concerned about my civility than the millions starved and killed in the name of the rules based international order.
🥰
If I didn’t recognize the fascists I was standing next to (or their narratives) then the people getting mad at them would probably seem unreasonable to me too.
And how would you go about getting someone to recognize the fascists they’re standing next to for what they are in such a situation?
By somehow getting them to question their old dogma and think maybe they might have been wrong. Then they might open their mind up and seek/absorb new information.
Which you’re less likely to be able to do with name calling and aggressive behavior, yes?
Not for me it wasn’t. I was a comfortable (but disgruntled) liberal before stumbling on CTH years and years ago (this is a new handle I made early this year). Maybe I was further along in my journey and was already primed for it but I connected with the vibe immediately. That was when I actually started my leftist academic journey in earnest and started participating/contributing to local groups/orgs.
The shitposts got me to read more books and do more stuff than being disappointed by the democratic party for years by myself ever did.
is aesthetically different or semantically different? because that’s pretty much what I see. people get aggro about it sometimes but the semantic content of what they’re saying is still what’s in the image.
aesthetics can still matter. If I say I disagree with you or I say I think you’re a stupid piece of trash there are people who would consider that to be aesthetically different but they convey a different message that will be received different.
tone policing sucks ass. I will not be polite and civil with people who callously disregard human lives. civility is the false peace, a white, middle class sensibility that I refuse to adopt. civility masks the underlying tensions that mark our fucked up world, pretending everything is hunky dory. fuck that. bring the tensions into the light. it’s only then that we stand any chance of resolving them. I’m not afraid of conflict. bring it on.
Where did I say to pretend that everything is hunky dory? Where have I callously disregarded human lives?
I neither can nor have the energy to try and make you do anything different than you will. But until it comes to violent revolution you’re not going to change many minds with aggression.
Where did I say to pretend that everything is hunky dory? Where have I callously disregarded human lives?
You commented in an instance you never have before to specifically ignore the issues of and then go on to undermine perfectly valid and verifiable instances of bigotry - specifically transphobia - in both the post and the comments. Instead jumping to take offense at vague criticisms of “Western instutions and media” and both sides bigots and fash with a harmless anti-bigot comic. You did this for 9 hours.
You tell me what we should assume about your intentions.
Check the modlog, Doug, there is no exaggeration.
Don’t need to. Saw how your users here descended upon my home instance the other day. You’re hardly without blame around here
Fuck do you mean, Doug, are you denying all the apologia, fascism, colonialism, racism, sexism, ablism, and homophobia that occurred? And I wasn’t there but I sure hope they gave the liberals of your instance hell for their imperialist views.
They came in with broad sweeping statements and assumptions paired with judgements and wishes of harm based in nothing but their own minds from what I could see.
There was also no shortage of an amplification of the message in this comic, all Western media is lying about everything all the time kinda thing. In the interest of full disclosure that’s very likely an exaggeration itself, but I’d wager closer to the truth than what’s here.
I’m not denying any of that happened any more than you’re denying what went down on my home instance. I wasn’t there
broad sweeping statements and assumptions paired with judgements and wishes of harm based in nothing but their own minds from what I could see.
unless source for the latter half of that statement, thats gaslighting, Dougall Western media is lying about everything all the time kinda thing
Do you think that a white-supremacist imperialist nation would be honest about an enemy that it is currently at war with?
Both sides. Concern troll. Civility. Blah blah blah. Post examples or fuck off.
Me: You guys acted more aggressive in my instance than this comic portrays
You: Both sides. Concern troll…
Posted an example elsewhere. Someone being a far bigger piece of shit doesn’t mean you are incapable of being kinda crappy yourself. We’re very far from anything resembling a both sides thing here
The one example you posted elsewhere (that I can find in your posts, you still won’t like or make it clear for others) is this comment which is a bit ranty and online for my personal tastes, but I don’t have any problem with the content of.
More importantly though, cherry picking the most (ironically) all caps reply you got here is not the same as providing evidence of Hexbear users “acting much more aggressively in my instance”. So you still haven’t provided anything to back up the claim you’ve made all over this thread. So yeah, plenty of people here will rightly doubt your sincerity.
Idk, I saw a few comments on that post that were bad but most of it from what I saw were decently calm disagreements, at least calm in comparison to being called state actors as OP did in the post
That fucking emote holy shit
HOLY SHIT THAT’S BOBBY DROP TABLES HIMSELF
You know, we have a little drop tables ourselves. 😏
no more half measures walter
