• AcidSmiley [she/her]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      69
      ·
      10 months ago

      Look it’s important that Western countries don’t show the full vid, otherwise their citizens would think they can do the same to cops in the US, can you imagine what they’d do to a guy walking around on one of their armored vehicles?

      • I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        10 months ago

        So that’s why China allows open conversation about the incident right? If it’s all just a big misunderstanding, they should be happy to allow their citizens to share the facts. Certainly they wouldn’t take steps to ban all mention of the incident as if there was something terrible there they wanted to hide.

        • AcidSmiley [she/her]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          10 months ago

          So that’s why China allows open conversation about the incident right?

          This actually gets discussed in Chinese state media. The idea that people get -500 social credit score when they barely mention Tiananmen Square is mostly Western propaganda. Maybe somebody else will link you articles about this from China, i’m not gonna bother because they’ve already been linked ITT and you liberals don’t read them anyway. But of course they’re around.

          Your post also shows a vast ignorance about how propaganda even works in the first place, whether we’re talking China or the USA or any other country. That’s because you get your ideas about politics from idiots like the antisemitic snitch and cousin r*pist George Orwell and then you think dictatorships work like 1984 and completely miss that you’re living in a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. Propaganda is not about hiding things from the public, that simply doesn’t work well enough. You can downplay the truth, but you’ll never get rid of it entirely. We’re one example of that, existing and driving you nuts in spite of the largest propaganda and surveilance apparatus in the world working against us. And the same applies for the smaller, less overarching, less well funded Chinese “intelligence community”, as you’d call their spies and snitches and secret police if they were Western spies and snitches and secret police. For example, anybody in China can install a VPN and look at Western news sources if they care, and a lot of younger people actually do that, just as you can come here and get exposed to facts that counter Western narratives.This is why propaganda works by emphasizing what you want the people to hear to the point were the noise drowns out what you do not want them to hear. By establishing counter-narratives to the truth. For example, you get flooded with the still image of the guy standing in front of the tank instead of the full video. You get fed the story about China somehow wafflestomping 10.000 corpses down the sewer drains by rolling over them with tanks until they’re mush, as if that could even work, even though the only source for this is something 1 (in words: ONE) British diplomat has allegedly heard from somebody in Beijing. But because people like you never actually check their sources, you think there’s hundreds of accounts of that incident just because there’s hundreds of articles citing that one unnamed British diplomat or each other, and that’s all over reddit, that site that has not only ruined your sense of humor and your ability to ever have a good faith discussion with another human being again, but that has also turned you into a mindless drone lashing out at anybody questioning the racist, national chauvinist narratives that have been blared into your ears until you came here 3 months because the pedophile spez threatened to take away the apps that allowed you to more conveniently doomscroll that hellsite on your mobile phone.

          What you usually do not get to see in Western media are the Chinese cop strung up on a lamppost and set on fire by the protesters, or that many of the counterrevolutionaries where, what a surprise, reactionaries that earlier the same year took part in riots against African exchange students at Chinese universities.

          Anyway, it was fun yelling at you, have a nice day.

    • KarlBarqs [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      64
      ·
      10 months ago

      My favourite bit about the video is that the tank column is leaving Tiananmen when this guy stops them, and I always get the impression he’s essentially asking the tankers to go back to the Square.

      Naturally the lib framing is that he’s blocking them from entering the Square

        • I_hate_you_welcome
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          10 months ago

          Sonnad, Nikhil (3 June 2019). “261 ways to refer to the Tiananmen Square massacre in China”. Quartz. Retrieved 21 June 2022. Su, Alice (24 June 2021). “He tried to commemorate erased history. China detained him, then erased that too”. Los Angeles Times. Retrieved 10 May 2022. “I watched the 1989 Tiananmen uprising”. LA Times. 30 May 2019. “As China Cracks Down on Dissent, New York City Gives Refuge to Exhibit Remembering Tiananmen Square”. US News & World Report. 1 June 2023. Retrieved 23 July 2023. Brook 1998, p. 216. Lim 2014a, pp. 34–35. Nathan 2001. Lin, Chun (2006). The transformation of Chinese socialism. Durham [N.C.]: Duke University Press. p. 211. ISBN 978-0822337850. OCLC 63178961. D. Zhao 2001, p. 171. Saich 1990, p. 172. Thomas 2006. p. 468. “After Li’s report the Elders voiced their anger atthe foreign and domestic enemies who were manipulating the students, and their con- viction that there was no choice left but to clear the Square by force. Nonetheless, most of the Elders hoped the job could be done without casualties, and Deng Xiaop- ing repeated his insistence that nothing should stop the momentum of reform and opening.” Nathan, Andrew J.; Link, Perry; Liang, Zhang (2002). “The Tiananmen Papers”. Foreign Affairs. 80 (1): 468–477. doi:10.2307/20050041. JSTOR 20050041. Retrieved 29 June 2023. Miles 2009. Declassified British cable. How Many Died 1990. Sino-American relations 1991, p. 445. Brook 1998, p. 154. Kristof: Reassessing Casualties. Richelson & Evans 1999. Calls for Justice 2004. “Tiananmen Square incident”. Britannica. Retrieved 9 July 2023. Dube 2014. “20 Years After Tiananmen Square”. NPR. Retrieved 18 August 2023. Miles 1997, p. 28. “Deng Xiaoping’s Southern Tour” (PDF). Berkshire Publishing Group LLC. 2009. Archived (PDF) from the original on 17 May 2017. Ma, Damien (23 January 2012). “After 20 Years of ‘Peaceful Evolution,’ China Faces Another Historic Moment”. The Atlantic. Archived from the original on 16 August 2019. Retrieved 1 May 2020. “The inside story of the propaganda fightback for Deng’s reforms”. South China Morning Post. 14 November 2018. Archived from the original on 26 February 2020. Retrieved 1 May 2020. Bodeen, Christopher (3 June 2019). “Prosperity, repression mark China 30 years after Tiananmen”. AP News. Archived from the original on 3 June 2019. Retrieved 3 June 2019. Nathan 2009. Goodman 1994, p. 112. Vogel 2011, p. 634. China tightens information. Yuen, Chantal (13 June 2016). “Bus driver in ‘8964’ massacre memento suspended for 3 months - report”. Hong Kong Free Press HKFP. Archived from the original on 17 April 2023. Retrieved 17 April 2023. Baum 1996, p. 283. Shen, Baoxiang. “《亲历拨乱反正》:拨乱反正的日日夜夜”. www.hybsl.cn (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 3 January 2021. Retrieved 29 April 2020. “Huíshǒu 1978 – Lìshǐ zài zhèlǐ zhuǎnzhé” 回首1978 – 历史在这里转折. Rénmín Rìbào 人民日报 [People’s Daily] (in Chinese). Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party. Archived from the original on 11 May 2008. Retrieved 29 April 2020. Tom Phillips (11 May 2016). “The Cultural Revolution”. The Guardian. Retrieved 5 November 2021. Naughton 2007. Worden, Robert (1987). “A Country Study: China”. Library of Congress. Archived from the original on 16 July 2012. Naughton 2007, p. 91. D. Zhao 2001, p. 120. D. Zhao 2001, Chapter 5: On the Eve of the 1989 Movement. D. Zhao 2001, p. 127. Vogel 2011, pp. 600–601. D. Zhao 2001, p. 81. D. Zhao 2001, p. 82. D. Zhao 2001, p. 84. D. Zhao 2001, p. 89. D. Zhao 2001, p. 137. Wang 2006, p. 57. The Gate of Heavenly 1995. D. Zhao 2001, pp. 64, 215. E. Cheng 2009, p. 33. Wang 2006, pp. 56–57. Spence 1999, p. 685. D. Zhao 2001, p. 138. Deng, Xiaoping. “On the Reform of the System of Party and State Leadership”. en.people.cn. Archived from the original on 2 March 2018. Retrieved 29 April 2020. Ng-Quinn, Michael (1982). “Deng Xiaoping’s Political Reform and Political Order”. Asian Survey. 22 (12): 1187–1205. doi:10.2307/2644047. ISSN 0004-4687. JSTOR 2644047. Whyte, Martin King (1993). “Deng Xiaoping: The Social Reformer”. The China Quarterly. 135 (135): 515–535. doi:10.1017/S0305741000013898. ISSN 0305-7410. JSTOR 654100. S2CID 135471151. Finch, George (2007). “Modern Chinese Constitutionalism: Reflections of Economic Change”. Willamette Journal of International Law and Dispute Resolution. 15 (1): 75–110. ISSN 1521-0235. JSTOR 26211714. Shigong, Jiang (2014). “Chinese-Style Constitutionalism: On Backer’s Chinese Party-State Constitutionalism”. Modern China. 40 (2): 133–167. doi:10.1177/0097700413511313. ISSN 0097-7004. JSTOR 24575589. S2CID 144236160. Wu, Wei (18 March 2014). 邓小平为什么重提政治体制改革?. The New York Times (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 21 October 2019. Retrieved 3 May 2020. Bao, Tong (4 June 2015). 鲍彤纪念六四,兼谈邓小平与中国的腐败. The New York Times (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 23 October 2019. Retrieved 3 May 2020. Yan, Jiaqi (1992). Toward a Democratic China: The Intellectual Autobiography of Yan Jiaqi. University of Hawaii Press. ISBN 978-0824815011. Archived from the original on 1 October 2020. Retrieved 30 September 2020. Ning, Lou (1993). Chinese Democracy and the Crisis of 1989: Chinese and American Reflections. SUNY Press. ISBN 978-0791412695. Archived from the original on 1 October 2020. Retrieved 30 September 2020. Wu, Wei (15 December 2014). 赵紫阳与邓小平的两条政改路线. New York Times (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 21 October 2019. Retrieved 3 May 2020. Wu, Wei (7 July 2014). 邓小平谈不要照搬三权分立. New York Times (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 16 December 2019. Retrieved 3 May 2020. hermes (4 June 2019). “Tiananmen 30 years on: A China that’s averse to political reforms – for now”. The Straits Times. Archived from the original on 8 June 2019. Retrieved 3 May 2020. Schram, Stuart R. (1988). “China after the 13th Congress”. The China Quarterly. 114 (114): 177–197. doi:10.1017/S0305741000026758. ISSN 0305-7410. JSTOR 654441. S2CID 154818820. Dirlik, Arif (2019). “Postsocialism? Reflections on ‘socialism with Chinese characteristics’”. Bulletin of Concerned Asian Scholars. 21: 33–44. doi:10.1080/14672715.1989.10413190. “1987: 13th CPC National Congress starts – China.org.cn”. www.china.org.cn. Archived from the original on 5 November 2012. Retrieved 4 May 2020. Qiping, Luo., Yantting, Mai., Meifen, Liang., Li Peter., trans., Fons Lampoo., “Student Organizations and Strategies,” China Information Vol 5, No 2 (1990) Goldman, Merle, Sowing the Seeds of Democracy in China. Cambridge Massachusetts: Harvard University Press, 1994 Zhang Liang, “An Emergency Report of the Beijing Party Committee” in The Tiananmen Papers (New York: Public Affairs, 2001). pp. 334-5. “CIA man misread reaction, sources say”. The Vancouver Sun. 1992. Retrieved 3 July 2023. Anderlini, Jamil (1 June 2014). “Tiananmen Square: the long shadow”. Financial Times. Retrieved 2 June 2014. The extraction missions, aided by MI6, the UK’s Secret Intelligence Service, and the CIA, according to many accounts, had scrambler devices, infrared signallers, night-vision goggles and weapons. Calhoun 1989. Pan 2008, p. 274. D. Zhao 2001, p. 147. D. Zhao 2001, p. 148. L. Zhang 2001. D. Zhao 2001, p. 149. Walder & Gong 1993, pp. 1–2. D. Zhao 2001, pp. 152–153. Li 2010, 21 May entry. D. Zhao 2001, p. 153. Baum 1996, p. 248. Pye 1990, p. 337. D. Zhao 2001, p. 154. Z. Zhao 2009. Liu 1990, pp. 505–521. Vogel 2011, pp. 603–606. 26 April Editorial 1995. D. Zhao 2001, p. 155. D. Zhao 2001, p. 157. D. Zhao 2001, p. 156. Vogel 2011, p. 608. D. Zhao 2001, p. 159. D. Zhao 2001, p. 161. D. Zhao 2001, pp. 161–162. D. Zhao 2001, p. 163. E. Cheng 2009, pp. 612–614. D. Zhao 2001, p. 167. Amnesty International, 30 August 1989. Preliminary Findings on Killings of Unarmed Civilians, Arbitrary Arrests and Summary Executions Since 3 June 1989, p. 19. D. Zhao 2001, p. 164. D. Zhao 2001, p. 165. D. Zhao 2001, p. 169. Li 2010, 15 May entry. Roberts 2011, p. 300. D. Zhao 2001, p. 170. Sarotte 2012, p. 165. D. Zhao 2001, p. 181. Li 2010, 17 May entry. Nathan 2002, pp. 2–48. Z. Zhao 2009, pp. 25–34. MacFarquhar 2011, p. 443. Z. Zhao 2009, p. 28. Miles 1997. Z. Zhao 2009, pp. 28–30. Ignatius 2009, p. x. Higgins, Andrew (14 September 1998). “Obituary: Yang Shangkun”. The Independent. Retrieved 8 August 2022. Brook 1998, p. 41. Pye 1990, p. 343. Brook 1998, pp. 42–43. Ignatius 2009, p. xv. “Tremble & Obey”. Four Coners. Event occurs at 00:24:50. Archived from the original on 8 October 2019. Retrieved 30 September 2019. Kevin D. Haggerty, Richard Victor Ericson (2006). The New Politics of Surveillance and Visibility. p. 204. ISBN 978-0802048783. “Tremble & Obey”. Four Coners. Event occurs at 00:42:12. Archived from the original on 8 October 2019. Retrieved 30 September 2019. Wright 1990, pp. 121–132. dragonmui. “Playlist of ‘Democratic Songs for China’”. Archived from the original on 27 February 2019. Retrieved 22 October 2018 – via YouTube. Macklin, Simon; Tang, John (27 May 1989). “Organisers ready for mass concert”. South China Morning Post. p. 3.