- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@derp.foo
- tesla@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@derp.foo
- tesla@lemmy.world
Tesla Model X Owner Has Had Enough Of Minimalism, Adds Physical Buttons::Tesla Model X owner from China has attached a panel of physical buttons to the vehicle’s main control unit for quicker access to some key functions.
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Anytime I need to click on a touch button / non physical button I need to take my eyes off the road so I don’t click on other buttons wrongly… physical buttons in car is the way !
I still misclick. It’s so dangerous.
Back when I was a teen I’d text and drive with T9 on a Nokia without needing to look at anything but the road. Now I have to concerntrate and time bumps to get try turn the demister on.
Physical buttons are just so much safer and easier since you don’t need take focus off driving.
I’ve thought about making an APK I can get going through Android Auto that simply converts my requests via LLM to commands for the car. But I imagine getting the manufacturer’s command lists is near impossible and then there’s all the shit blocking an APK permissions to control car components. It would otherwise be super easy.
I’d be very surprised if they let an APK that wasn’t signed in some way by the manufacturer access any vehicle functions. A rogue app could do silly dangerous things. Wait a second, it’s Tesla and Musk we’re talking about here. No, I’d actually not be surprised upon reflection.
I had my rebuttal locked and loaded until those last two sentences. What a ride.
You could have an ESP32 connected to your phone. The ESP could control some relays or simply raise/lower pins to connect to whatever this physycal board is connected to. You make your own API from there.
What car components would you like to be able to voice command?
Texting, calling and maps are already in android auto, and those are usually the ones in the car OS too, so I doubt they even have commands for other stuff. Maybe the AC if it’s even connected to the computer.
The next generation of CarPlay is going to be able to control the AC and integrate with the car enough to take over all the panels. I haven’t seen Siri mentioned but I’m guessing Siri would be able to control it too.
I don’t really follow android so I don’t know if they have similar in the works.
Tesla has an open API, and there are several apps and different types of hardware that take advantage of it, including Bluetooth hardware buttons.
I want jackknife switches for every function, all wired to go chokBZAK and throw sparks at me every time I use my turn signal. Mad science maximalist aesthetics.
Thanks for the visual. This helps
I’m imagining a dashboard bristling with these, to control everything from door locks to wipers.
Maybe a few big red buttons and flashing toggle buttons too, case depending.
It’d be a horrible experience to drive, which is itself a net benefit.
and flashing toggle buttons too
Don’t forget the safety covers
I think I just realized something. I don’t want a car, I want a flashing fidget toy that can zap me and make sudden noises.
Dude those are fucking quality right there! I kind of want that
It takes like 4 switches and a button to get the power into the back to open the trunk, all while you crackle maniacally in the grocery store parking lot. Also it needs to be struck by lightning first.
I feel seen
So, in the future when self driving is a thing, you have most people napping or watching their favorite drama in 2 second clips between 5 second commercials, and then there’s you. Fully entertained you, cackling while randomly flipping hundreds of switches that aren’t quite aligned, each one making a spark on contact and doing something innocuous like changing the color of the interior accent lights.
Probably still be walking places like some kind of asshole
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This hits so close to home. I have had multiple experiences where phone-starers pull up so close to my bike while they are not paying attention that my wife could slap their hoods, and once I had a guy pull so close behind at a red light that his bumper was UNDER my rear fender.
While stopped, keep it in first gear and hold the clutch. Plan an escape path ahead of time and park at a slant if you have to. Using your mirrors, remain vigilant of traffic approaching from behind. Safe rides! 🏍️✌️
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Always good advice!
Simce when is a giant computer screen glaring in your face considered minimalism? I would argue the buttons return the car to proper minimalism. So glad to see this! Can we just yank all of those screens out of future vehicles?
I dont think removing the screen complete is the right way around this. Having something that can display maps and more information is good. But it should have never become the only thing.
You need buttons and easy access to functions that are always available in easy to remember places. So that you aren’t spending attention away from the road when you want to change the fan control.
Fuck this bullshit touchscreen only nonsense, actual physical buttons are superior in a car.
As somone that lives in a dark sky rural area, the computer screen totally distracts and prevents your eyes from seeing the road where there are no streetlights. It is like driving with someone pointing a flashlight in your eyes that you can’t turn down.
Agreed. The screen should be an OLED so the blacks are actually off, and overall dim solely using easier colors at night, low intensity red hues are proven in Astronomy to not screw with your vision, for instance.
One of the first things I changed on my TLX when I got it was getting rid of the “blue everything” setting on the screens and going with a red interface and it made a world of difference.
It also does that in teslas, it automatically goes in to “dark mode” so it’s not a large white screen, reduces blue light and dims backlight on the screen when it’s dark outside.
Physical buttons are better for everything that you want to be able to control without looking at
Personally I think a good tactile display could fix this but I would prefer a voice control that really works more than any buttons. I’ve heard Teslas voice control is pretty good, but I have yet to be satisfied with any automobile voice control.
This aesthetic minimalism and there’s minimalism as lifestyle philosophy. Those two are not related and often contradict each other.
(author) "…but it obviously defeats the whole purpose of minimalism. "
Fucking dumbass, A single button to do one thing IS minimalism. A screen area to many ISNT
Ngl I want my dash to look like a fucking airliner. I love that my MINI interior looks like a personal space ship from a 90s movie. Give me moar toggles!
I want everything to be toggle switches. If I could get a keyboard made of 105 classic toggle switches it would be worth the effort to type with it.
The question is, do you want them to toggle ‘on’ and ‘off’, meaning switching them on is like holding down the key, or send impulses in each position? (obviously with a master switch to reset then without triggering something)
Meanwhile in my Volvo
Although it’s been this for a long while now
I know, I intentionally bought a 2017 so I would have physical buttons 😂
Thing is, I really wanted CarPlay / Android Auto support. Having had that with a 3rd party Alpine deck, I really got used to it. It’s hard to go back.
But, having some of those controls behind several menus and screens is really annoying. Oh well, at least it’s not a Telsa and I can turn the air vents manually.
I usually just prop my cellphone in front of the car’s screen if I don’t want to bother setting the car’s NAV and I only play two radio stations when I drive so it doesn’t bother me, but I understand what you’re saying (although my experience with Android auto wasn’t great).
Honestly I just wished the NAV could sync with my phone via Bluetooth even if it used Volvo’s map, that’s all I would need for it to be perfect.
I’m mostly in CarPlay land. Personally, I like that the car UIs are much more glanceable, have bigger touch targets that are easier to hit on a bumpy road, and default to voice control UIs for a lot of stuff. All in all, it feels safer to me and helps me keep my eyes on the road.
But once you get outside of controlling CP and AA for audio, messaging, and mapping apps, and you start talking about controlling the vehicle, I want physical buttons for common stuff.
My Volvo has some annoying collision detection sensors that I have to toggle off on certain roads, and going through menus to get to that is stupid.
At least they have physical buttons below the screen for media, hazards and heated windscreens & seats, plus all the steering wheel controls.
For now. The new Volvos are getting what they developed for Polestar. Android Automotive for the head unit platform, which is dope, but even fewer physical buttons on the dash. 😬
https://techcrunch.com/2023/08/08/the-volvo-ex30s-interior-is-the-ikea-take-on-teslas-playbook/amp/
My guess is that this will change though. I don’t even see hazards on the dash. I don’t think that’s even legal in a lot of places.
Edit: also, the current generation setup on Volvos has physical controls for audio, hazards, window defrost, lights, cruise, voice control, seat position, drive mode, and vent orientation. Seat temperature is on the screen next to climate controls.
Unfortunately that’s absolutely hideous.
Functional vs pretty… When it comes to something that affects safety I’ll take functional.
That’s totally fair and everyone has different preferences. But I really don’t think it needs to be a trade off at all. My ‘13 Focus has buttons for everything important in addition to the touch screen controls and they made it look nice too.
If I’m gonna spend XC60 money, I want the styling to be something I enjoy as much as I enjoy the rest of the car. This console might actually be a deal breaker for me if I were shopping.
What year model?
2017 xc60 in my case, it’s not exactly like that (I’ve got a couple of blanks this one doesn’t have) but they still had it up to 2018 in the S60 and V60.
Honestly surprised that Tesla allowed him to modify his car without charging him a $30,000 fine or something.
Yeah Teslas mostly seem like big integrated bricks of tech that you have to throw out if one part breaks, wouldn’t have expected this level of individual modification was possible. Now they just need to make this an option for everyone!
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They are MacBooks with the windows’ telemetry
This seems like a great idea to me. Touch screens are a terrible way to operate controls while driving. Some car companies have begun backing off from the trend and are moving back to buttons for some functions.
Touch screens are great for dynamic interfaces, but terrible for anything that involves feedback or a tactile experience.
My vehicle - though not a Tesla - still pisses me off that all the stereo controls except the power button are touch-based (even power appears to be a software-activated button as it failed once when the unit locked up). The saving point on my vehicle is that the steering controls (volume, prev/next) do still exist as physical buttons.
At the very least, they’re should be a physical on/off, and physical dials/controls for volume and heating adjustments so a driver can change those without taking eyes off the road.
I fully expect that aftermarket buttons for dashboards will become a range of popular products, from things like this all the way up to a full dashboard replacement.
Physical buttons will now be a paid option on vehicles…
When they should have been mandated long ago for safety reasons.
This was my first thought. I’ve never even been in a Tesla, so I didn’t know they didn’t have the basic functions on buttons. In terms of safety, having a specific button in a known location that does a specific thing is extremely important.
How does it work on a Tesla, voice control? That might be good. If you have to scroll through menus on a tablet to turn the A/C up or down, that’s a severe safety issue (and likely illegal in many countries to do while the equivalent of the ignition is on).
“hey Tesla, turn on the defroster”
—“ok, indicating right”
“No! I need defrost!”
—“I didn’t get that, say again”
“Turn on the windshield defrost”
—“ok, wipers on high”
Welcome to the world of tomorrow!
You’ve used Tesla voice control I see… :p
Lots of cars today have this touchscreen nonsense for controlling everything.
By 2016, even Honda/Acura started using it on higher end models. Which is funny, because my early 2000’s Honda has nice, big, obvious, easy-to-use-without-looking AC controls.
Yeah, I was just looking at the modern version of my current car. Seems like it does still have 1 row of buttons. But most stuff seems to be on a teslaesque tablet.
My current model (from 2014) l has a lot of stuff you can do in the menu system, but anything you need to do while driving has controls on either the stalk or dashboard.
Oh and the current car has a touch screen radio and THAT is annoying on its own. So many times I want to just press a different station shown on the screen. Oh, you wanted to select that station? Well I thought you swiped and now I’m on a random page of stations you don’t want to listen to. Good luck getting back while driving!
How does it work on a Tesla, voice control?
Think about moving your phone out of reach and then using an app to control your car. It’s about like that. Only it’s mounted to the car so you’re both bouncing around out of rhythm.
Voice control works for most things but you can’t even turn on the headlights, and it doesn’t work at all without cell reception. Like we haven’t had fantastic offline speech recognition for a dozen years?
They recently added some contextual controls to the steering wheel buttons but literally the only ones I wanted (headlights and wiper speed) were not included.
They only just recently added the function to automatically turn on the headlights when the wipers come on.
If Tesla doesn’t have voice control, they’re behind my 2016 Prius, which has it. You have to push a steering wheel button to access it. Of course, no-button Teslas could do an ‘Ok Google’ or ‘Hey Siri’ or whatever.
And if you don’t pay your monthly fee, the car will just ignore those buttons.
Available via OTA software update….
Premium physical buttons only available on budget models (like headphone jacks on smartphones)
For the Tesla enthusiasts that want their car to feel like a real car.
I’ll just get something else than a Tesla when EV’s get common enough.
I’m also interested in seeing used car prices for EVs. Like how much is a 20 year old Tesla/EV worth, and what range do you get at that time?
It’s not a Tesla nor 20 years old, but:
Before my Leafs battery melted (no active cooling, thanks Nissan) we were being offered 16k or so on the private market when it was 4.5 years old. Had gone from a max range of about 154 to 140ish in that time
It has a brand new battery now so that changes things, I’ll admit. Newer cars will have longer lasting batteries in no small part thanks to cooling the fucking Things lol
You just made me realize I want a standardized modular interfacing system for dashboards. Like a Framework laptop for cars. That would be so dope
That would be so cool! Not proprietary enough to sell the idea to automakers, but if the things on a dashboard could be switched out like the accessories of a desktop computer, we would quickly see what people actually want in their cars.
One of the biggest non-problematic problems I have with newer cars is the lack of physical buttons. I also really dislike the trend of everything becoming minimalist, so I 100% support these types of modifications so long as they can be safely implemented.
Minimalism can be nice, but Tesla seems to do this just for cost savings. Didn’t they remove some “important” physical buttons from the steering wheel recently?
They removed all the stalks and the center horn button from the S/X and replaced them with capacitive touch buttons on the steering wheel and screen. It’s gone about as well as you might expect.
That seems just fucking dangerous. They are digital I am guessing? As a software engineer I really struggle to trust anything that another engineer can code 😅, at least for things that can kill me.
It absolutely is fucking dangerous, and annoying.
My Model 3 has both the best and the worst interfaces haha.
The column shifter I absolutely love because I don’t have to look at it to use it and it doesn’t take up space on my center console.
The scroll wheels similarly do not require eyes and can be used to control various operations based on context.
But I also have to take my eyes off the road to adjust the temp, seat/steering heaters, and have to go like 3 menus deep to get to the rear seat heaters (passengers can’t control them). Most notably, headlight and wiper controls only have virtual buttons and are hidden in a menu instead of being readily available on screen.
There’s the whole “mind of car view” that consumed 1/3 of your screen real estate, and is super cool for the first couple days of driving but after that it’s just a giant waste of space that could be used for these necessary controls.
I really have a love/hate relationship with this car.
I wonder how he did it. Can you program your Tesla ?
Programming your Tesla would mean that you upload software that your car runs. I think you can’t do that, but you should be allowed to.
As it’s a matter of public safety, and as part of a right to repair, all of the software that runs in cars should be open source, and should be able to be updated by the owner.
This is a terrible idea. What stops me from uploading a broken piece of shit fork that puts others at risk while I’m driving?
The same as every other thing that puts people at risk: consequences
The law stops you. Open source just means that you can access the code and modify it. Open source does not mean that you have automatically met the legal requirements to certify that software for use on public roads. That would be an additional hurdle that any automotive software would have to pass. But, most legal systems are stone age compared to software development and any sufficiently new technology. Still, right to repair and open source does not mean that you can operate outside of regulations.
I believe the issue isn’t one of laws, but enforcement. If a person is physically capable of modifying the code their cars runs and then operating it on a public road, then someone will, illegal or not. That is what puts the lives of others at risk. Hell, I can already imagine websites where you can download untested mods to apply to cars that people will apply with no knowledge of how it works.
You could say the same thing about literally any aftermarket modification.
The same thing that prevents you from putting in a piece of shit knockoff part that puts others at risk while you’re driving?
You’re desire to not die.
I was thinking more like scripts. You load scripts, it interprets them.
A script is a type of software, so that’s not really a big difference.
I don’t know about Tesla specifically, but if I was making a car that was intended to be moddable like this, I would have a hardware interface of some sort, and expect the mod to call a public API. This is similar to how cell phones can connect via USB and have some functionality.
Do you really think the average Joe has the knowledge to develop safe software for a car? Some things are okay to be proprietary imo, maybe with open documentation but not source.
You could absolutely standardize, certify, and isolate safety components
If the non-critical parts were scriptable like the infotainment system, then I could get behind it. Kind of like android I guess where you’re free to tinker, but you have to enable developer mode first so regular people can’t accidentally break something.
No but you can tap into and send signals over the CAN bus. I believe that’s how it works. They’re not the first to add controls.
I really want a formula one steering wheel. Give me a bunch of useful and programmable controls right next to my damn fingers.
No doubt in my mind they’ll remove you from the fast charge network if you plug this in the U.S. Even more now as this is making rounds online.
I read Tesla X owner and immedeately thought of Musk
I still think it’s theoretically possible to do a touch interface right… but nobody has figured it out yet. Any interaction that requires you to navigate between multiple menus while driving is doing it wrong, but if you could get all the relevant buttons on screen, in predictable enough locations that people can click them while driving, it could work….
But at that point I’m not sure there’s much benefit to the screen vs physical buttons.
