I don’t expect perfection…? Being anti-vax is a big deal to me. That’s not a harmless ideology. It’s moronic and anti-science. This isn’t just some little thing I disagree with it’s, in my opinion, a huge moral and intellectual failure. I think it’s completely fair that this gets brought up because it’s directly relevant.
I wish we lived in a world where we could count on people to just do the right thing but we don’t. On issues that put everyone at risk I unfortunately have to stand on the side of mandates until people learn how to act. Personally I’d still rather that they just get naturally excluded from society but we’re all too split for that and too many people have to needlessly die in the meantime. I’m aware fighting for women’s rights to choose is kind of hypocritical in this situation but nobody has come up with a better solution that doesn’t just let people be wilfully ignorant and get other people killed in the process.
Yet somehow you guys are always the first to play the victim even to something that’s still theoretical. Like your comment here. Amazing example. Same with the person you responded to. Not a single example of anything like that but here you both are comforting each other over it lmao
If you look at some of the biggest figures of our past in world history, the vast majority of them had some kind of vice or did some kind of thing or participated in some kind of event that would have gotten them cancelled in today’s world. It is ridiculous to what standards we hold people today, but in the end, they are just that - PEOPLE. Highly flawed individuals, just like you and I and everyone here. That doesn’t change the fact that they changed history (for better or worse) in one way or another. The problem comes when society then elevates them to some demi-god level and then everyone gets all flustered when that extra-marital affair or off-color joke or comments about some topic comes to light.
Talking about someone’s glaring flaws isn’t the same as expecting perfection. That’s an intillectually lazy way to see it. Wanting people to only sing the praises of anyone is actually expecting your version of perfection.
If it’s relevant to the person being discussed it’s fair game imo. Just like it’s fair game to point out her better actions if it’s in a post dunking on her. Famous people are gonna be scrutinized more than the guy working at the gas station that’s just how it goes. I don’t expect perfection but what alternative do you even want here? I’m not down with ignoring bad behavior then because we want their help now. That’ll never sit right with me. If someone is in a position to be emulated by fans and they make the decision to spread dangerous ideology then fuck em. I’m gonna bring it up at every whisper of their name. It’s the closest thing to actual consequences for their actions that most rich/famous people ever get anyway.
Why does it matter if it’s relevant to the person, if it’s not relevant to the subject or current event in question?
To answer your question, the alternative I want here is better working conditions for actors. I view her as working class, not rich. The difference between a millionaire and a billionaire is about a billion dollars.
The guys her union is up against actually are rich, and they’re even worse. The working class is being divided and conquered.
Yeah. Put me on a pedestal instead. I’ve got some nice ideas. Like what if we made a car with a square steering wheel? I mean we won’t know the downsides until we try.
I don’t know man. My dad, my teacher and the fireman have no public presence so they won’t be the face of any media workers’ strike. And at least one of the above is also an anti-vaxx and/or an asshole. This lady is just doing her role and I don’t think it makes much sense to undermine her work on this subject because her poor takes on others.
But isn’t that what our society does these days? Or at least certain segments of it.
They take someone who is X and then elevate them to some unreasonably high status that no one person should attain, and then that same society drops them like they’re a hot potato when they find out that the person isn’t perfect.
To be clear, I don’t disagree with your take. We shouldn’t be undermining someone’s work because of some stupid opinion on this or dumb decision to do that.
But think about what’s become a rather popular event over the last couple of years. Some actor gets shunned for saying some stupid shit about vaccines. There has been a whole rash of events where statues of people long dead have been taken down. Buildings dedicated to certain people were renamed. Columbus - the poor guy’s legacy has been dragged through the mud because of people who can’t separate the fact that he was a great explorer but he was also a bit of a douchebag.
We need to stop elevating these people to the level of a deity, and then we won’t be shocked to find out the person was just human and a bit of a womanizer or a prick about money or he didn’t like certain groups all that much. Praise them for their singing or acting or the new world they explored.
You say on one hand we should stop putting people on pedestals, but then in the same thought you go on to say that Columbus’ “legacy” was ruined just because he was a bit of a douchebag.
Like how logically inconsistent are your own thoughts? Columbus was a piece of shit who genocided multiple ethnic groups. He never should have had statues in the first place. He didn’t even find what he was looking for. He was an arrogant fuck who got lucky, and the world probably would have been better off if he drowned at sea.
And nobody “dragged him through the mud”, they just took a realistic look at who and what he actually is, which is supposedly what you’re proposing.
What is so difficult to understand? The person - all people in general - are multi-faceted and as humans we are all flawed. Someone can be a murder but also be brilliant on the football field, like OJ. Stop putting these people up on a pedestal. But at the same time, are we supposed to simply ERASE his accomplishments on the football field? Everything is so obnoxiously polarized.
That’s what people these days want to do. On the one hand they elevate every stupid celebrity they can think of and then everything comes crashing down when they say an off-color joke. If someone is a great singer… great, listen to their music, but stop fawning over what they wear and what they drive. Stop listening to every stupid comment they tweet. They are a singer, chances are they aren’t a scientist which probably doesn’t make them an expert on climate change or vaccines or whatever other topic. One day people are paying double for some celebrity endorsed sneaker and then the next they are burning those very same sneakers in a pit because he said something about endangered trees.
Off color joke =/= genocide. Great footballin < murdering. The people upset about the endangered trees are not the ones burning overpriced athletic shoes made by child slaves.
I’m going to assume you are a troll, because to do otherwise makes me feel sad.
Was he really a great explorer though? The guy dramatically underestimated the size of the earth and he and his crew probably would’ve died from thirst or starvation or whatever if they hadn’t run smack into the new world halfway to India.
By that logic then, the majority of world famous chemists and other scientists out there shouldn’t be heralded as great minds because they only accidentally discovered a certain medicine that cured a disease or a new element or some other new compound that eventually was put to great use.
Don’t put anyone on a pedestal. Not politicians, not celebrities’, not twitch streamers, not your girlfriend. You can love, respect and even like people, but don’t worship anyone, it leaves you blind to their faults and it’s a pain in the ass being the one on the pedestal in a relationship.
You can pass people’s messages around, and the messages that are not about them but that their presence and actions help spread, without putting them on a pedestal.
Removed by mod
Stop expecting perfection.
Nobody is perfect. MLK had affairs, the founding fathers owned slaves, Churchill was racist AF, etc.
She’s doing a great job now and we can educate her the same way we turned Obama from anti-gay marriage.
We should judge people OVERALL not on stuff like being anti-vax (which to be clear is dumb).
I don’t expect perfection…? Being anti-vax is a big deal to me. That’s not a harmless ideology. It’s moronic and anti-science. This isn’t just some little thing I disagree with it’s, in my opinion, a huge moral and intellectual failure. I think it’s completely fair that this gets brought up because it’s directly relevant.
Not to split hairs but she is actually against vaccine mandates, not against vaccines itself. She is vaccinated against covid-19.
Personally I disagree with her and support mandates, but there is a considerable difference between anti-vax and anti-mandates.
Source: https://variety.com/2023/biz/news/fran-drescher-sag-aftra-contract-talks-alec-baldwin-vaccines-1235517073/
I wish we lived in a world where we could count on people to just do the right thing but we don’t. On issues that put everyone at risk I unfortunately have to stand on the side of mandates until people learn how to act. Personally I’d still rather that they just get naturally excluded from society but we’re all too split for that and too many people have to needlessly die in the meantime. I’m aware fighting for women’s rights to choose is kind of hypocritical in this situation but nobody has come up with a better solution that doesn’t just let people be wilfully ignorant and get other people killed in the process.
No!
If even ONE thought in her head disagrees with MY world view then she is useless and NEEDS to be destroyed!
/s
This is where leftists get the reputation for forming circular firing squads.
I always think of this farside
Yet somehow you guys are always the first to play the victim even to something that’s still theoretical. Like your comment here. Amazing example. Same with the person you responded to. Not a single example of anything like that but here you both are comforting each other over it lmao
What are you talking about here?
I don’t know but mine was 17 hours ago and yours was 17 mins ago which is kinda neat
That is a great way of saying it.
If you look at some of the biggest figures of our past in world history, the vast majority of them had some kind of vice or did some kind of thing or participated in some kind of event that would have gotten them cancelled in today’s world. It is ridiculous to what standards we hold people today, but in the end, they are just that - PEOPLE. Highly flawed individuals, just like you and I and everyone here. That doesn’t change the fact that they changed history (for better or worse) in one way or another. The problem comes when society then elevates them to some demi-god level and then everyone gets all flustered when that extra-marital affair or off-color joke or comments about some topic comes to light.
Talking about someone’s glaring flaws isn’t the same as expecting perfection. That’s an intillectually lazy way to see it. Wanting people to only sing the praises of anyone is actually expecting your version of perfection.
Why is this particular flaw relevant to this discussion?
If it’s relevant to the person being discussed it’s fair game imo. Just like it’s fair game to point out her better actions if it’s in a post dunking on her. Famous people are gonna be scrutinized more than the guy working at the gas station that’s just how it goes. I don’t expect perfection but what alternative do you even want here? I’m not down with ignoring bad behavior then because we want their help now. That’ll never sit right with me. If someone is in a position to be emulated by fans and they make the decision to spread dangerous ideology then fuck em. I’m gonna bring it up at every whisper of their name. It’s the closest thing to actual consequences for their actions that most rich/famous people ever get anyway.
Why does it matter if it’s relevant to the person, if it’s not relevant to the subject or current event in question?
To answer your question, the alternative I want here is better working conditions for actors. I view her as working class, not rich. The difference between a millionaire and a billionaire is about a billion dollars.
The guys her union is up against actually are rich, and they’re even worse. The working class is being divided and conquered.
To each their own. I’m not willing to give any slack on people that are anti-vax even if I perceive them as being helpful to me at the time.
Now thats a very good opinion that I totally endorse.
So what you’re saying is
All hail Sarah Silverman
Oh god, what did Sarah Silverman do?
Yeah. Put me on a pedestal instead. I’ve got some nice ideas. Like what if we made a car with a square steering wheel? I mean we won’t know the downsides until we try.
And after you take a turn, the downsides will change anyway!
I don’t know man. My dad, my teacher and the fireman have no public presence so they won’t be the face of any media workers’ strike. And at least one of the above is also an anti-vaxx and/or an asshole. This lady is just doing her role and I don’t think it makes much sense to undermine her work on this subject because her poor takes on others.
But isn’t that what our society does these days? Or at least certain segments of it.
They take someone who is X and then elevate them to some unreasonably high status that no one person should attain, and then that same society drops them like they’re a hot potato when they find out that the person isn’t perfect.
To be clear, I don’t disagree with your take. We shouldn’t be undermining someone’s work because of some stupid opinion on this or dumb decision to do that.
But think about what’s become a rather popular event over the last couple of years. Some actor gets shunned for saying some stupid shit about vaccines. There has been a whole rash of events where statues of people long dead have been taken down. Buildings dedicated to certain people were renamed. Columbus - the poor guy’s legacy has been dragged through the mud because of people who can’t separate the fact that he was a great explorer but he was also a bit of a douchebag.
We need to stop elevating these people to the level of a deity, and then we won’t be shocked to find out the person was just human and a bit of a womanizer or a prick about money or he didn’t like certain groups all that much. Praise them for their singing or acting or the new world they explored.
You say on one hand we should stop putting people on pedestals, but then in the same thought you go on to say that Columbus’ “legacy” was ruined just because he was a bit of a douchebag.
Like how logically inconsistent are your own thoughts? Columbus was a piece of shit who genocided multiple ethnic groups. He never should have had statues in the first place. He didn’t even find what he was looking for. He was an arrogant fuck who got lucky, and the world probably would have been better off if he drowned at sea.
And nobody “dragged him through the mud”, they just took a realistic look at who and what he actually is, which is supposedly what you’re proposing.
What is so difficult to understand? The person - all people in general - are multi-faceted and as humans we are all flawed. Someone can be a murder but also be brilliant on the football field, like OJ. Stop putting these people up on a pedestal. But at the same time, are we supposed to simply ERASE his accomplishments on the football field? Everything is so obnoxiously polarized.
That’s what people these days want to do. On the one hand they elevate every stupid celebrity they can think of and then everything comes crashing down when they say an off-color joke. If someone is a great singer… great, listen to their music, but stop fawning over what they wear and what they drive. Stop listening to every stupid comment they tweet. They are a singer, chances are they aren’t a scientist which probably doesn’t make them an expert on climate change or vaccines or whatever other topic. One day people are paying double for some celebrity endorsed sneaker and then the next they are burning those very same sneakers in a pit because he said something about endangered trees.
Off color joke =/= genocide. Great footballin < murdering. The people upset about the endangered trees are not the ones burning overpriced athletic shoes made by child slaves.
I’m going to assume you are a troll, because to do otherwise makes me feel sad.
Was he really a great explorer though? The guy dramatically underestimated the size of the earth and he and his crew probably would’ve died from thirst or starvation or whatever if they hadn’t run smack into the new world halfway to India.
By that logic then, the majority of world famous chemists and other scientists out there shouldn’t be heralded as great minds because they only accidentally discovered a certain medicine that cured a disease or a new element or some other new compound that eventually was put to great use.
He committed genocide. Would that also make Hitler “a bit of a douchebag?”
Unless it’s me, right? 🥰
Well of course, but that’s a given assumption
Hello, it’s me, your pedestal. Please sit on my face.
…and you are??
God if there was one message I could forcefully implant into society as a whole it’s this. Well said.
Don’t put anyone on a pedestal. Not politicians, not celebrities’, not twitch streamers, not your girlfriend. You can love, respect and even like people, but don’t worship anyone, it leaves you blind to their faults and it’s a pain in the ass being the one on the pedestal in a relationship.
You can pass people’s messages around, and the messages that are not about them but that their presence and actions help spread, without putting them on a pedestal.
Try it for once. It’s fun.
It’s just a shitpost. Why so serious?
What if Fran Dresscher is my dad?
She might teacher 6th grade social studies too! Shit. You found a loophole.
Everyone is a little loopy though. We’re all some flavor of hypocrite too.
I don’t mind celebrities being on a pedestal, because it is a common reference point for us all when discussing virtue or lack thereof.
We just all need to be reminded that they are still human and stupid in their own way.
But my dad is anti-vax and racist. I’m trading up!
I only look up to superheros like Karl Marx or Xi Jinping
Shut up, nerd
Stay in lemmygrad where you belong.
Make me 🤌🧀🐁