And we shouldn’t allow this concept to go unchallenged here on Lemmy.
Commenting on an active post is not brigading
Posting a link to something is not brigading
Commenting on something you were linked to is not brigading
The only thing that might be brigading, but isn’t because it isn’t a real thing, is someone explicitly going, “Hey everyone, go here and harass this person”
It’s all fine and good that we have some new rules to keep the peace with other instances but we must fight against 
In retrospect, it’s funny how the liberals on lemmy.ml were haughtily saying “This may have been a tankie space once, but we will overwhelm them eventually and make it clear that they aren’t welcome here” and then Hexbear comes in and they shit themselves.
they thought the reddit wave would be bigger but it turns out redditors like feeling smug more than actually leaving the corporate walled garden. so they aren’t thaaat big and a good % of those who did come here are at least vaguely leftist. That plus hexbear=no more unchallenged “ebil seeseepee” type circlejerks
we have literally spent hours talking about thought terminating cliches, ready to fight them
It’s extremely weird. Like I’m just commenting on what appears on my all page, how is that brigading? It’s literally a feature of the website.
Counterpoint: I’m a huge baby.
Didn’t think of that one, did ya, pinko!?
Liberals are used to games with rigged rules (“”“International Rules Based Order”""🙄) and when the playing field is level it feels to them like everyone else is suddenly cheating
That’s how the most of the internet works. The site admins of whatever community impose hegemonic rules about acceptable discourse and then purge everything outside that. It’s how we work, it’s just that we got rid of all the bigots and shitheads. In a normal community a landlord runs the instance, bans everyone who wants to shoot landlords, and tolerates bigots as long as they don’t literally say the N word too many times in a row. Here the hegemony is flipped on it’s head - Any kind of bigotry gets you banned fast, and you can actually name names when talking about why society sucks without having to pretend this isn’t a knife fight to the death.
Wait till the realization sinks in that this is just the normal, organic amount of engagement they get from us because we’re by far the most active lemmy instance
People have been saying for years “soon, they will stop soon”
And I just say See you in 3 more years, let us know what you think
As with all internet spaces, eventually Hexbear will grow old and die. And hopefully like a half a dozen even worse communities will grow from the corpse.
I AM BRIGADING YOU RIGHT NOW BUCKO. I AM THE ONE MAN BRIGADE
STAHP MODS PLS
Literally every dog pile I have seen has been some nerd talking shit, a chapo or 2 posting in good faith, the nerd says something extra stupid… nerd gets dog piled.
you see, when I call you a Chinese bot, or fake Russian names I’m being a very reasonable discussion partner
when you call me out for being a weird racist it’s brigading, trolling, 4chan, and the type of behavior that needs to be defederated from
Death to Russia = non-political
Death to NATO = I WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS TYPE OF COMMENT
also weird that one is a country full of people and the other is an aggressive military alliance, If one died a whole lot of normal people would die, plus some war criminals
if Nato died it’d just be dead war criminals
dead war criminals
Ahem, I believe you mean “People of NATO”
Usually its 2-3 chapos calling someone a dipshit lib for posting a bad take, and then someone comes along with an nice effortpost an hour or so later.
Like, i approve of it, people get too used to not being called a dipshit. But newgangs first posters on the scene usually come in hot.
It seems to me that instance has a very evident and festering
problem, which is incredibly strange for what is supposed to be a pro-trans instance.They’re being tone policed down to
levels, but they’re still spreading the same hateful talking points that prevents the free expression that the admin team supposedly desires.This is my first time seeing it first hand but it’s so obvious and transparent that their liberal well intentioned inclusiveness has already backfired horrifically. When hexbear users confront these tone-adjusted fascists and question their hateful anti-left stance (something the mods and admin team should be doing but lack the spine) they cry and demand defed because their views absolutely can not stand up to any sort of serious analysis.
I will say I would not have seen this without federation. It genuinely makes me appreciate the amazing community thats been cultivated here because it’s not easy to challenge, and remove, a polite abuser standing next to you.
If anyone is communicating with their admin team, I think they should be told to wake up because it will only get worse before their community is co-opted and they’re the ones being “tolerated.” I am being constantly reminded of this https://youtu.be/P55t6eryY3g?t=677
The fact that calling it out plays in to the fascists hands is pretty depressing too.
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I wanted to reiterate what Melonius said about appreciating the hard work you and the other mods do. You’ve made this such an amazing space and seeing the broader fediverse really brought it home.
Can I ask what it means for us to have us defeded and block vs allow them?
I thought if either party blocked the other it was the same as both blocking one another?
Just to clarify what I meant, I personally don’t mind remaining federated but I’m still new here. I think fascists should absolutely be challenged, argued with, and shut down, but it’s not even something I’m totally comfortable with doing myself yet.
I’m condescending because it’s hard to express, but I feel sad for them because I can’t tell if their admin team has been bullied in to submission by that one community or something else. It’s condescending of me because their instance has a ton of history and I can’t possibly comprehend it in the couple of days we’ve been federated. I think all the admin posts I’ve read have been fairly reasonable but are coming from a passive and overly tolerant lib mindset. I still remember being there (still am really) and it’s a horrible feeling.
Anyways, thanks for everything you all do!
I think fascists should absolutely be
challenged, argued with, andshut downThe only option, imo. If we’re talking about arguing in good faith, it’s no use with fascists. Bad faith is their whole point.
I agree, but if we’re on other instances I only mean to correct their bigotry and false statements so others see that they’re wrong.
Ideally they’d be banned already and there’s nothing to respond to.
Reddit, the site that’s designed to have as many eyes as possible look at as wide a variety of posts as possible to bring about engagement has rules against the wrong people engaging.
Rule #1: do not be a communist
Pretty much. And don’t upvote the wrong things. And definitely don’t fuck up their idea of how the algo should work because you post too much.
Reddit doesn’t have issues with brigading anymore, because brigading is when you post on r/ChapoTrapHouse and also post on other subreddits.
I suppose it follows that Lemmy brigading is when you post on Hexagonal Bear dot Net and also post on other lemmy instances.
when you post on r/ChapoTrapHouse
Have you been around long enough to remember the obsession with ShitRedditSays?
SRS was so powerful for it’s size. Rent free in the heads of every Redditor to this day
Brigading is when leftists are the most active posters and the more terminally online they are the more brigading it is.
Folks really haven’t grasped that federation means it’s not “your community” anymore, you’re basically a subreddit now, with all the horrors that entails.
They’re really crushing this speed run.
“Were creating a decentralized space where different opinions and people can all interact with each other to whatever extent the users want”
“Hey why are there people here saying that Biden isn’t the savior of the working class, clearly this is harassment”
It vibes strongly with the “outside agitator” discourse that always shows up during mass protests. “Surely our wonderful posters would never dunk on me, it must be outsiders coming in to persecute me!”
It’s 1865 and “outside Agitators” are riling up minorities
It’s 1965 and “outside agitators” are riling up minorities
It’s 1991 and “outside agitators” are riling up minorities
It’s 2020 and “outside agitators” are riling up minorities
I tire of these Democrats. I tire of their dissembling
The liberals are welcome to come in here and “brigade” us as well. We won’t complain. We’ll just dunk.
And probably get accused of brigading our own threads or something.
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As usual, liberals just use different words when they like some vs. when they don’t. When they don’t like it? Brigading! When they do? Just raising concerns, I hate those red fash tankies.
PS they are envious of our knack for a self-organized united front.
Their culture is so snarky and anti-collaboration, they get pissy with each other nearly as much as they do with us, and they don’t engage any differently in either case. I really do feel bad for these people who are trapped in the atomized, all against all social paradigm of the new internet.
So much of the ‘brigading’ is just comrades pointing out and challenging racism or bigotry and agreeing that a reactionary is racist or bigoted. I think its this kind of collaboration that comes off as so offensive to them sometimes; it’s not something that any of us have to argue about, so it might always come off as co-ordinated to those who are used to saying whatever tf they like without consequence. Must be strange to be challenged when it’s acceptable to be a a conservative or a ‘progressive’ and a POS throughout most of the western world.
What would it be like living in a world where anyone who dared to voice bigotry or misogyny or transphobia was immediately dogpiled by everyone around them? Like someone makes a bigoted comment in the grocery store and everyone around starts yelling at them and calling over the rest of the grocery to yell at them? Sure, witchhunts, whatever but god it would be nice living a world where if you encountered a bigot or a fascist or a cop everyone would pile in to help you without having to be asked or having to think about it.
i just want to be able to call the gender stasi when some transphobe starts shit 😔
they get pissy with each other nearly as much as they do with us, and they don’t engage any differently in either case
I’m still new to Hexbear and this has been the biggest striking difference for me coming from liberal spaces. I’ve seen multiple arguments on hexbear, and honestly, I had a hard time at first seeing that they were civil disagreements and not just jokes.
Edit: I think maybe because in the liberal spaces, to open up like that in good faith is just an invitation to get shit on for going outside the norm. Whereas here you’ll get engaged with in good faith and it’s just a much more positive experience that actually allows for civil disagreement.
Goofy emojis help, as does the anti-debatelord
cultureI really like not having a downvote button. Keeps the cowards from downvoting and feeling like that did something. Debate your opinion nerds, don’t hide.
To indulge in irresponsible criticism in private instead of actively putting forward one’s suggestions to the organization. To say nothing to people to their faces but to gossip behind their backs, or to say nothing at a meeting but to gossip afterwards. To show no regard at all for the principles of collective life but to follow one’s own inclination. This is a second type.
we do have the downvote emoji
but it’s a comment instead of an actual downvote, meaning you’re making your disagreement publicly instead of anonymously and opening the floor to further discussion.
Long ago in the Second Age when I was posting with Elf kings and Dwarf lords and all that shit from 20+ years ago I always preferred to actually post rather than do something like block a person. I never used chat filter, never blocked a person (unless they were spamming in a video game). I liked it that way. I really appreciated that we got rid of the downvotes here. I tend to like upvotes because it feels like a nice way of saying “heard and acknowledged” to a post but I also like to actually reply with a “nice post!” or “that’s funny!” because it feels so much more sincere and engaged.
What I’m trying to say is I genuinely appreciate the ‘culture’ we have fostered here. It’s a nice place. If anybody calls us a bunch of meanies I’d say just look at the mutual aid comm or the way the mods politely remind people to tone it down if things start to get genuinely heated or how we are anti-sectarian.
I kind of wish there was like a “Thumbs up” button only for comments replying to your comment so you could agree to someone in way that showed you didn’t have anything further to say. I mostly just use
For that, which I guess works well.
Here you can generally assume people will engage with intellectual honesty and intellectual curiosity, not just to “win” an argument but to have a real exchange of ideas that results in potentially both people benefiting. Everything isn’t a debate and every conversation does not have a winner and a loser, the goal everyone has here is generally for everyone to be better off.
Even the reddit admins themselves tried to back away from this. They eventually realised that people sharing links to reddit posts is not a bad thing, and wanted more of it.
The only reason they continued to crack down on it is that there is a historical cultural legacy that was incorrectly fostered around it on the site.
Also because of things like r/cth posing a problem to them
The thing that annoys me is the widespread misconception among the lib instances that Hexbear users are just out there spamming PPB on every other instance, when in reality it’s much more common that someone starts calling us hate speech spewing Russian bots or whatever and people start responding to that. Oh no, the consequences of my actions
Anothe thing that happens frequently is someone posts something well-crafted in good faith and then a lib responds ”I’m not reading that Kremlin/Chinese propaganda, troll!”, so who are the ones actually not interested in arguing here?
Well yeah, but it’s okay when people call us bots because we’re genocide denying turbo tankies. When we take offense we are in the wrong. This is called “Civility”.
It’s like “Talking back” that adults pull on children. Kids can’t figure out what they did wrong because they didn’t do anything wrong. Their crime is existing. Our crime is being outside the Overton Window. Nothing we can do will ever be acceptable.
It’s like “Talking back” that adults pull on children.
!!! I had somehow forgotten about this phrase, even though it was my most frequent infraction and has shaped all of my dealings with children. It still baffles and hurts me that so many adults would rather get mad at kids for having feelings, opinions, and questions than talk to them like they’re actual people.
Literally cannot imagine being this narcissist towards kids now that I’m old. I heard this fucking thing so much growing up
It was so awful. I tried so hard to understand what i was doing wrong and it wasn’t until decades later that i realized that i never did anything. “Talking back” just meant being noticed in any way. It’s a horrid way to treat people.
I tried so hard to understand what i was doing wrong and it wasn’t until decades later that i realized that i never did anything.
ugh, hard relate
I get angry just by reading the phrase, ugh
I’ve posted PPB exactly twice. Once when someone was whining about “I wish tbe hexbears werent here” and once again when someone said “tankie says what” in response to a well written reply (from a lemmygrad comrade)
And now the mod of /c/196 is shitting all over Carcosa, just rubbing shit all over Carcosa and our collective faces. This is what happens when you try to pander to bad faith liberals. Why must we collectively give rimjobs to these fucking losers?
I agree. It’ll suck if the two instances with the largest trans communities on lemmy defederate, but there seems to be irreconcilable political differences here that will make continued federation impossible.
From what I see, most users on blahaj, especially the 196 community specifically, have swallowed the state department party line hook, line, and sinker. If you literally believe in all of the CIA atrocity propaganda, then you also believe “tankies” are fascists pretending to be leftists. This disagreement is fundamental, and it can not be fixed by any degree of increased civility or politeness.
And from the looks of their discussion thread on continued federation with Hexbear, it’s their admin more than anyone else delaying the inevitable defederation, their users are mostly cheering to cut us off. They’ve given us one week to see how it goes, but I don’t feel confident things will change.
When they do end up defederating, I hope the new c/the_dunk_tank rules can be repealed because it seems they’ve been put in place nearly entirely to appease blahaj.
Its the June 4th Tiannemen thing that gets me. The 1932 famine is complicated. There’s plenty of room to just say "look all these reputable historians say terror famine! You can just ignore the tankie historians who say it was complicated. But there’s nothing complicated about June 4th. What they think happen didn’t happen, it’s widely agreed that it didn’t happen. I don’t even know who is still spreadying this bullshit.
I don’t even know who is still spreadying this bullshit.
Every neoliberal thinktank and media outlet. What the historical record says is irrelevant in that context.
What the historical record says is irrelevant in that context.
I’m getting high school level understanding of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact thrown at me as an example of fascist/communist sympathy/equivalence.
God I hate that bullshit. History starts when the commies do something they don’t like, and then stops immediately after, and then blips back in to existence the second commies do something they don’t like again. Everything happens in perfect isolation with the only connecting thread being the involvement of some kind of communistish government.
Yeah, I personally haven’t seen that gem specifically from blahaj, but they say shit that stupid and worse. It’s like they get their views from those shitty revisionist history youtube channels following the Hardcore History wave.
To me, it’s no longer just ideology but how their administrative team is completely slimey. Why would the admin bother to have this sham poll when it’s really obvious a supermajority of people would instantly vote to defed from us? It goes back to my comment about people acting in bad faith. She already knows the userbase wants to defed from us and she probably wants to defed from us too, but she doesn’t want to own up to being the person to pull the plug of the great trans federation, so she’s going to have this sham poll, wait for the very predictable result, and say, “Sorry, I wanted the federation to work, but the userbase wants to defed and I place the needs of my userbase first,” in effect pushing responsibility away from herself. This is extremely transparent in what she’s trying to do, extremely obvious to people who weren’t born yesterday.
I like how they’re also preloading some arguements that if the vote is to stay federated, it’s hexbears voting with socks. Then the admin says they’ll adjust how the totals are counted until it seems legit to them.
If hexbear users are fired up enough to vote tamper, it’s going to be for defed, because they don’t particularly like blahaj.
Then the admin says they’ll adjust how the totals are counted until it seems legit to them.
Ah yes, my favorite liberal democracy move, adjusting the totals until it ‘makes sense’.
Great, now they get to portray us as 4chan Nazis or whatever they like after we’re gone uncontested.
Hexbear double genocide theory, exploding heads Nazis yelling slurs at you is the same as hexbear users calling you a liberal
Yeah, that shit sucked. Bummed me out.
😞
