• angrytoadnoises@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
    282·
    11 months ago

    The fastest way to get a gawky white american teenager spitting revisionism at you is to plainly state that the Soviet’s were instrumental to winning the second world war.

    b-b-but the Molotov–Ribbentrop pact!!

    • el_bhm@lemm.ee
      214·
      11 months ago

      While raping and pillaging away.

      And slaughtering non-russian soviets by the houndreds while sending them in waves. Only a true russian drunk mob could gloriously stick the flag at Riechtag.

      You frothy at the mouth already? Go read documents Kremlin itself released about the Battle of Berlin.

      Murdering your own populace by the millions is a fair game. Russia has been at war for almost every decade of its existence. Since the 9th century.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia

      • taiphlosion@lemmygrad.ml
        371·
        11 months ago

        Don’t you love the way libs leave such smug ass comments about things they don’t know about, and the cherry on top being wikipedia links or western news sources 💀

      • angrytoadnoises@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
        23·
        11 months ago

        yeah I’d probably wanna stop the nazis too

        no one tell this guy that raping and pillaging comes standard with armies and warfare. almost like war is bad and has a negative effect on the land and people or somethin idk

        • el_bhm@lemm.ee
          112·
          11 months ago

          Nazis by the most part did not. Russians always did.

          Every WWII veteran in Central Europe attested to this. First hand accounts.

          But hey, what do I know, right!

          • ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
            32·
            11 months ago

            The Nazis fucking made rape legal and unpunishable for their soldiers to commit with the May Decree before the onset of Operation Barbarossa you fucking degenerate swine.

            Eat shit you Nazi trash.

          • keepcarrot [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
            29·
            11 months ago

            Wh… What? Nazis were comfortable with murder, slavery, and stealing gold teeth from corpses but drew the line at rape, while the Russians were… What? Extolled to rape by the perfidious Soviet leadership?

            Are you high?

            What do you actually know? Where are you reading this random bullshit?

              • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
                4·
                11 months ago

                Not even that, because then he was never able to face justice for all the atrocities he committed. If he just had a change of heart, realized he was an irredeemable monster and shot himself out of shame at the peak of his rule it would be commendable. Instead he took the cowards way out when he had no escape, no chance, and was moments away from being captured. That’s not honorable, just another in his long list of lives ended as a direct result of his rule, with the silver lining being that this time his actions couldn’t hurt any more people.

          • angrytoadnoises@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
            26·
            11 months ago

            There was absolutely sexual violence during the holocaust and the german army absolutely raped their way through both the western and eastern fronts. What did you mean by this? All armies rape and pillage, the US, the brits, the italians, the french, the japanese, even the aussies did it.

            Do you actually think armies full of men just…don’t rape?

          • GhostSpider [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
            5·
            11 months ago

            The USA had literal army recruitment propaganda that advertised the local women of the war torn countries to the would be soldiers.

            Oh wait, you didn’t even use the USA as your “counter-point”, you went straight for Nazi defense?

            HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

          • huf [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
            2·
            11 months ago

            out of interest, you nazi defender, which central european accounts are those? the hungarians? the romanians? fascist allies of the nazis? amazing that they didnt rape them.

            meanwhile even on natopedia, you can read about it.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht#Eastern_Front
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_violence_during_the_Holocaust

            your dogshit education enlarged soviet rapes while staying silent on the order of magnitude more rapes committed by the nazis. you’ve been taugth a complete, deliberate distortion about ww2. go read up a bit on the subject because this is just embarrassing.

              • huf [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
                1·
                11 months ago

                they might. i did. i grew up on the “russians rape but germans were gentlemen” stories too, from the non-jewish landowner side of the family. nobody ever ever mentioned that being non-jewish, wealthy and living in a country allied with the nazis might have had something to do with it.

                the other side of course only survived because the soviets liberated us before they were found and killed.

      • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
        6·
        11 months ago

        Lets see how long it takes them to passively support the naz- wow only 3 posts down. Anticommunism is always pro-fascism.

        • ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
          4·
          11 months ago

          Passively? The dumbass started ranting about how the ubermensch of the Nazi war machine didn’t commit rape and fought honorably. That’s some explicit Neo-Nazi trash, even Wikipedia will tell you about the millions of rapes those scum committed.

          Anticommunists show their hands almost immediately.

  • Muad'Dibber@lemmygrad.mlM
    151·
    11 months ago

    Follow rule 3 (be respectful, and make this a welcoming environment) ppl, or we won’t hesitate to issue temp bans.

  • Zerush@lemmy.ml
    9·
    11 months ago

    The US has sheltered more Nazis than it has killed (not only because of Operation Paperclip) and to this day it is the country with the most Nazis in the world.

        • booty [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          32·
          11 months ago

          Killing cannot be a verb on its own, it requires a subject. There’s no such thing as just “killing” on its own, there is always someone on the other side being killed. When that someone is nazis, killing is something to be proud of.

              • Duży Szef [he/him]@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
                132·
                11 months ago

                I will never enjoy the act of killing and will endlessly judge you for choosing to. Comrades who are happy to kill will forever raise my eyebrow.

                It must be done, because it is necessary, not because we want to.

                I will now disengage, it seems nothing fruitful will come in continuing the conversation.

                EDIT: Now that I’m rereading this, how can one look at the act of killing and compare it to picking fucking fruit? How is that not asinine?

                • booty [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
                  16·
                  11 months ago

                  Now that I’m rereading this, how can one look at the act of killing and compare it to picking fucking fruit?

                  The point I’m making is a grammatical one. The premise of your argument is that the term “killing” without a subject implies a blanket application of all forms of killing, whether they be for necessity or pleasure, of nazis or puppies. The premise of my argument is that the term “killing” without a subject is nonsense. There’s no such thing as killing without a subject.

                  It is like “picking fruit” only in the sense that “picking” requires a subject. You can’t speak on all “picking” because that doesn’t exist. You can pick clothes, pick fruit, pick up cute boys, whatever. To suggest that there is some nebulous concept of “picking” is just as logical as to suggest the existence of some nebulous concept of “killing.” You can’t pick without a thing to pick, you can’t kill without someone to kill. It is the someone which determines whether the killing is good or bad.

    • KiG V2@lemmygrad.ml
      232·
      11 months ago

      Many actual Soviet soldiers were motivated not by grand ideals of socialism, but by patriotism and simple survival of themselves and their families.

      We cannot afford to always be morally ideal. The real world–and particularly, war, which we are all engaging in by being socialists–is ugly. Morals are secondary to victory, which is secondary to survival.

      Specifically in regards to killing, killing is nature. Nature is a constant warzone of killing. We ourselves kill every single day just by existing–yes, even those of us who are vegan or pacifist. You cannot escape killing, you can only try and steer who you are killing.

      I know when I finally blood myself when this war heats up here I will be heartbroken about it. I have empathy and compassion and see the little child hurting inside even the most wicked fascists. But, there is no choice. If part of the cope is glorifying the killing, if part of what we must use to spurn ourselves to commit the act is the fanfare of war music and attitudes of detachment and sadism, then so be it. Your damn right I’m gonna draw a little tally mark everytime, I would encourage a friendly competition with comrades seeing how many enemies we can end. There is no choice. It’s kill or be killed. It’s whatever it takes.

      • Duży Szef [he/him]@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
        102·
        11 months ago

        Great post! However I have some issues…

        If part of the cope is glorifying the killing, if part of what we must use to spurn ourselves to commit the act is the fanfare of war music and attitudes of detachment and sadism, then so be it. Your damn right I’m gonna draw a little tally mark everytime, I would encourage a friendly competition with comrades seeing how many enemies we can end.

        During war, you must do whatever floats your boat. You must do everything to persevere and see another day, to have a tiny sliver of hope. But for those who are not at war, glorifying killing and also possibly war is a grave mistake. We can look at WWII and come to the conclusion that if not for the bravery and sacrifice of the Soviet people, Nazism would’ve won. But as Socialists, not as individuals, to incorporate the “glory of killing the enemy” into any line would be to incorporate a seed of reaction.

        There is no choice. It’s kill or be killed. It’s whatever it takes.

        If I have to, I will do the job, but I won’t be happy doing it. The bourgeoisie and fascists salivate killing us particularly because of how they glorified killing. But what will socialists do when war comes and how will we approach educating others and enacting war is yet to come. Right now we live in (mostly) peace, and I’d rather my comrades not turn to the reaction or commit adventurism by salivating the act of killing another human being.

        • KiG V2@lemmygrad.ml
          4·
          11 months ago

          Thank you for engaging with my disagreement.

          Okay I’m just talking out my ass here and wouldn’t necessarily permanently cosign any of this but:

          I guess I see it as, I’d rather someone be spurned into action by questionable motives that we may have to iron out of our society later, than for us to continue to completely lack inertia and accomplish nothing. There just simply isn’t enough fuel burning, Western socialism has no force behind it. Our society has conditioned us to fetishize violence and created murder-curious greedy, selfish, depraved, antisocial beasts of us all. If we don’t have the power to address the source of this disease yet at least we should channel this energy towards something productive? Right now people’s Dark Side energies are being funneled towards fascism, or some aesthetically anarchist indiscriminate/“indiscriminate” mass killing anticiv antinatal misanthropic “burn it all down” nonsense. What if people could instead be encouraged to channel this toxic hatred towards our political class, towards cops, towards middle class white suburban fascists who will be the footsoldiers of the Holocaust and the Barbarossa of tomorrow? What if people who are ruining lives trying to make a living by selling fentanyl to the poor or robbing poor neighbors could be persuaded to victimize the middle class instead? What if would-be school shooters, or those who would shoot up a Black church or a Latino-heavy Walmart, instead shot up a lily-white Target, Starbucks, or even better a country club, or Wall Street? What if all these suicidal left-ish youth used their life more productively against our oppressors? What if socialism was an acceptable outlet for people’s sadism that normally can only be channeled into fascism?

          I get this is playing with fire, but how I see things, leftism is so thoroughly corrupted in the US/the West and fascism so normalized and rampant, we may have to try questionable, even downright repugnant methods to win the day. If China was forced to concoct Dengism (which just for the record I can think of much worse) for the sake of pragmatic long-term survival, will we, here in the Heart of the Beast, not have to utilize much worse to win the day?

          Also for the record, I want nothing more than to be absurdly wrong. I still try and envision a future for us Westerners that doesn’t end in hellish bloodshed. I refuse to think of things like “love conquers all” as naive or impossible to work, and I do think committing to violence is planting a seed of evil that is simply paying for today with tomorrow, a new disease that will have to excised…much like how the Chinese are dealing with the consequential corruption of Dengism in the now. But, with the board laid out like it is…what, really, are our options?

          • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
            41·
            11 months ago

            What if would-be school shooters, or those who would shoot up a Black church or a Latino-heavy Walmart, instead shot up a lily-white Target, Starbucks, or even better a country club, or Wall Street?

            Considering all the shooters are fash and “leftist shooter” is a myth, it would be very hard.